Chatterbox - Anime & Manga

And as a result, we get translations with awkward phrasing, non-translated jokes, and that are just plain stilted at times. Megadimension Neptunia VII comes to mind (though it's pretty inconsistent with whether or not it wants to localize its jokes).

It's trading one extreme for another.

edited 20th Apr '17 10:49:21 AM by PhysicalStamina

So it's an reaction to dumbing down and westernizing the translations that happened earlier? I can't say I'm against that.

I can understand that, but I honestly think some translators go too far in the other direction.

In Neptunia's case the trilogy never actually dumbed down much though. They increased Neptune's weebness, which was still in character, and that was about it.

They certainly didnt attempt to westernize it outside of exchanging a random Yankii joke for a Gangsta joke in one game. If anything they embraced the Japanese quirks even more the Japanese version.

edited 20th Apr '17 11:07:10 AM by Memers

Yeah, I don't think having to read stiff, awkward dialogue and overly roundabout speech patterns (as I see in many manga scanlations and fansubs) are that much better of a reading experience. Not to mention the even more extreme examples of adding profanity or raunchiness where there wasn't any reason to to make it "edgier" and then claiming they're being true to the original.

This is a really complicated issue honestly since you can argue back and forth about nuances of one translation's implication over another for hours and still not have a right answer. Fans often oversimplify or pretend they know more than professional translators do when it comes to certain things, which is just dumb.

edited 20th Apr '17 12:22:14 PM by Draghinazzo

Rather than going into a Wall of Text on the subject, I'll just note that it really depends on which translation group you're talking about. There are a lot more fan-translator groups (or individual freelancers) than professional translation teams, IINM; Sturgeon's Law is obviously going to skew perception when it comes to the former.

That is true, there are fansubs that go super liberal on translations and or dont use honorifics and such. Of course there are groups who will hijack those translations too and add back in honorifics and such too.

The one thing I hate the most in professional translations is when they reverse the name order of the characters, rather than sticking to the original. A close second is translating the various "-chan", "-kun", "-san" etc honorifics. (Worst example: translating "onee-sama" in Railgun with "missy", which, just, no.)

The thing you see in fan translations, other than ill adviced attempts to translate when it's clear the translator knows neither English nor Japanese well enough, is sticking too literally to Japanese phrasing and sentence order. Also not translating a specific term and then immediately sticking up a translation note on the same page.

I think that many anime fans who don't speak Japanese, want the translation to at least retain some flavour of the original, which is why they might prefer fansubs and scans over the more polished, localised professional translation.

The one thing I hate the most in professional translations is when they reverse the name order of the characters, rather than sticking to the original.

But that's just in line with how Japanese names are handled in general. No one in America talks about Miyamoto Shigeru, but they do discuss Shigeru Miyamoto.

In any case, you reminded me of a terrible Shin Mazinger ZERO scanlation I came across, done by someone who did not seem entirely aware that Japanese and English have radically different sentence structures.

The reversal of name order has its pros and cons; the pros are obvious, in that it makes all names treated equally, though I note that Chinese names are almost universally exempted from this treatment even in translated Japanese media (first example that comes to my mind: Mahou Sensei Negima! characters Ku Fei and Chao Lingshen).

Some of the cons that come to my mind right now:

• It messes with any word plays that are dependent on the name order. One could perhaps handwave away a case like Sword Art Online character Kirito, real name Kazuto Kirigaya, by the rationale that it's not unknown for people to swap around syllables when making up words by combining portions of other words if the end result sounds/looks better. But actual puns that absolutely need the name to be in native order to make sense (often due to dependence on grammar) or not look/sound awkward (e.g. Moroboshi Ataru, lit. "to be hit by a falling star"^note Moroboshi is an adjective-noun compound, while ataru is a verb; Japanese grammar requires all "free" verbs (i.e. that aren't parts of compounds themselves) to be placed at the end of the sentence/clause/phrase, after every other kind of word except copulas.) might not be so easily handwaved.

• It becomes awkward when the Japanese dialogue/writing cuts off abruptly just as the utterance of the full name has progressed to the given name, especially if it becomes plot-relevant. Example: A murder scene where the victim has attempt to write the name of his killer (Satou Hiroko) in their spilled blood, but died before they finished the given name, leaving just "Satou Hiro". The people present assume it's referring to a guy named Satou Hiroshi, because while Satou Hiroko is present, she had secretly changed her legal identity years ago to Matsuda Yumi and only the victim knew her previous name, and Satou Hiroshi is the only person present whose name could fit the incomplete writing. This would not work well if you have been strictly following Western name order, as the readers/audience may find it jarring if you switched back just for this instance, and you can't change it so the victim was writing the name in Western order because it's the given name that should be complete in such case (unless you just omit the last name altogether and leave an incomplete given name, which is a different can of worms).

edited 20th Apr '17 3:46:57 PM by MarqFJA

Something else that bothers me is when a character that won't shut up, either in a specific scene or in general, is called "noisy".

Just... what? No English speaker talks like that. They either use "chatty", "annoying", or just outright say they talk too much. I have never anyone call someone who just keeps talking "noisy".

Don't quote me on this, but I'm fairly certain this is a literal translation of the Japanese word "urusai" which is often used in such situations. Unfortunately, I've seen multiple translations (including Megadimension as mentioned above) just leave it as is instead of using a different word that an English speaker would actually use in its place. Stuff like this is what I'm talking about when I say I don't like it when translations are too literal.

Wait, Urusai isn't "Be quiet/Shut up"?

That's usually how it's translated/used, but I thought I read somewhere that it literally means "noisy".

I know someone in this subforum knows Japanese, get the hell in here and sort this out.

edited 20th Apr '17 5:34:58 PM by PhysicalStamina

Used solo it means 'shut up' or 'shoo' to insects in context. 'Noisy' is usually excessively literal but still can be appropriate in some situations, but used like 'Anta wa urusai' it means 'you are annoying'.

Literal 'Shut up' would be 'Damare'.

edited 20th Apr '17 7:49:09 PM by Memers

Hey guys, anyone know what anime this is? http://semie78.tumblr.com/post/157200808749/imagine-your-otp

Tags seem to imply Aikatsu Stars.

So I was watching Boogiepop Phantom and found it more than a bit confusing, and so i did something that I pretty much never do for something like this and actually picked up the LN's to read. Surprisingly enough I'm actually enjoying Boogiepop and Others, but I kind of wish I had read it before I started watching Phantom, since I'll probably have to rewatch it to actually understand what's going on.

I've seen one instance where "Urusai" was translated to "Silence!", and I think this sheds some light on what this means.

In English you probably wouldn't just yell "Loud!" or "Annoying!" at someone without a subject in the sentence structure, but from what I understand, in Japanese it's acceptable. And when an anime character tells another "(you're) loud/annoying!", the implied subtext is that the person wants the other to stop. That's why it can be translated to a command saying "silence" (despite that seemingly meaning the opposite of the literal meaning) - in other words, "shut up".

So it's really about how the "shut up" is expressed through urusai without actually saying the literal words.

I actually think that the East Asian name ordering is beginning to catch on in some ways. I don't know about Japanese names but I know that Korean and Chinese names of famous celebrities and such, like singers, are better known by their native naming styles than by western styles.

If necessary you can just make it more universal with the "last name, first name"^note last name comma first name convention.

I agree with you there, although more often than not those honorifics are just left out instead of translated. I like to have the honorifics intact because doing so conveys more of the contexts. You can give English (or non-English) equivalents to help explain them, but that doesn't quite capture their essence; these aren't really meant to be translated. They're "new" terms you need to learn in themselves.

Also, it seems to me that in Japanese the usage of the word "you" occurs less because half the time in anime, the third person-ish "your name + honorific" is used instead. To give an example, it's common to hear "Akane-chan is cute!" as opposed to "you're cute!" even when it's said directly to Akane.

So I watched the currently released first five episodes of the Zaregoto OAV and as the first thing written by Nisio Isin I watched, it was pretty good. The mystery's been engaging so far and the writing works. The animation has all of Shaft's typical quirks but I feel it works well here.

The maids, the cook, and Shinya feel really underdeveloped compared to the rest of the cast but there are still three more episodes to go, so. Definitely looking forward to the next episode and seeing how it goes.

edited 22nd Apr '17 1:54:57 AM by Nouct

uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh.....can someone help me? I found this tweet randomly depicting some sort of clip from an anime(I think), and I want help explaining what the utter fuck is going on(besides Japan). Help?

Also, anyone have an idea what it's from? I might wanna get smashed and watch it one of these days.

Henkei Shoujo. And that's the entire first episode

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Also apparently in Japan it's rude to just keep calling someone "you" (anata?) after you've already learned their name. Unlike here, where It's meant to take the place of one's name in normal conversation, in Japan it has a connotation of "Hey, You!".

edited 22nd Apr '17 5:01:35 AM by PhysicalStamina

Henkei Shoujo seems really interesting.

this just in: Keijo!!!!!!!! the anime did so poorly in Japan that it canceled its manga.

Ouch.

To be fair, that series was overusing the Fanservice trope from Day One, and not much else.