Neon Genesis Evangelion

@Crinias

Dude, Anno was referring to his 4 years of depression before he wrote Evangelion. Following Nadia he was unable to write anything. He put the emotion he felt during that time into his story.

Rei is a clone period. She's one of Shinji's dead mom which is stated over and again. The only matter in which she isn't 100% is that her personality differs entirely from his mother. However, in my researching of her she still seems to have a strong sisterly/motherly aspect since none of her interactions come across as romantic and she is trying to help Shinji understand his father and her reminding him to try to be more sympathetic is akin to how Yui was to professor Fuyutski when he was talking to Yui and he said he considered Gendo a "bastard".

Also Rei is similar to Japan? Japanese people don't purposely hurt themselves like Rei does.

@Scherzo09

Be certain before you come to that conclusion man. Assumptions aren't the way to go when asserting a fact.

It's kind of unusual to me that Rei becomes the main girl for Shinji since Anno beared a preference to girls like Asuka since according to your speculation that he believes girls like her and Misato are analogy of American girls.

edited 29th Jun '12 9:31:18 AM by Couchpotato20

Well, of course I know Rei is a clone of Yui, I mean that in the meta aspect there are few characters like her (Edit: Or rather, there used to be few characters like her). And she's only a physical half-clone, so there is no reason to think that she would inherently resemble Yui in personality. She is her own person. Her being a clone is just part of who she is, it doesn't define her.

I think we'd better stop arguing about the depression thing because we might never really know.

As for the Japanese and Rei comparison, it's more of a thing I personally think. Did you know that Japan's suicide rates are among the highest in the world? The sheer societal pressure regarding job loss, irresponsibility and other such things is listed among some of the most common reasons why people do it. And Rei attempts self-sacrifice repeatedly in the series, if you recall. In the end it's just something I think.

edited 29th Jun '12 9:56:24 AM by Crinias

@Crinias

Okay so back then suicide rate was at it's highest? And thus Anno based her off them? Wow, that's some odd ass writing. 0.o But then again, because of how chars like her, Misato, Asuka mirror real people is why I think it's good writing.

People saying the psychological screwball shit made Evangelion weird angers me something fierce. Also saying he was depressed when he wrote it thus makes his writing corny. Probably myopia on my part, but it's just I find that type of writing deep and is a first time experienced element in an anime. Which is why I think it's pretty awesome. The switching up the psychological aspect with more dakka kinda isn't my forte and comes across as lousy. But that's all my opinion.

On another note: here's my last input on the depression thing:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideaki_Anno

Back to Rei, perhaps I'm being too hard on her. But, just so you know, I'm not lumping the label of "motherly" as pertaining to her persona as her original gene donor Yui I'm basing it on scenes from NGE which have a tendency to mirror certain scenes and relationships. For example, Shinji X Asuka can be seen as a younger version of Kaji and Misato because of how clingy they both are for their respective lover.

I think it's an Oedipal complex thing; Rei subconsciously reminds him of his mother so there's a kind of "Return to the Womb" thing going on.

I think Misato; besides the part of being a wreck due to her Daddy issues and not getting over Kaji; is shown to be a better ideal woman than Asuka, since she's both assertive and appreciative of others needs; as opposed to Asuka who's a raging insecure attention whore.

edited 29th Jun '12 2:18:46 PM by SilentColossus

I'm not saying Anno based her on that sort of thing! Don't jump to conclusions. All I'm suggesting is that the Japanese audience could see a lot of things in Rei that they could easily associate with individually and as a whole. Rei is practically defined by Japanese values, such as being stoic in the face of catastrophe, doing your duty, doing what your boss tells you, not complain about your duty, etc.

And of course, even though Rei accepts it, she herself says that she hates Gendo for not allowing her to die. How many times must someone give their life for the sake of someone else?

In Japanese society suicide is occasionally considered a morally responsible action, such as after commiting a crime; the military also has a history of it, consider seppuku and kamikaze attacks.

Edit: Still, Rei wanting to die is due to more reasons than something as superficial as simply being an allusion of how Japanese society views suicide or something of the sort.

edited 29th Jun '12 1:52:43 PM by Crinias

I think Rei being a Death Seeker is a self-reflection on the inherent purposelessness of her existence. Gendo showers her with affection but only because she superficially reminds him of Yui, and as she says she can be replaced. I think Rebuild does a better job showing her growth towards finding self-meaning in her existence beyond merely following orders.

@Scherzo 09

Misato being better for Shinji than Asuka even though they're more or less the same? Misato is too used to having sex to help her feel aliive and make connections with people. This is noted in Eo E.

Asuka at least spoke out about why shes in the line of work she's in, in ep 12. Misato didn't come out about it until the Touji incident. Asuka was honest, and patient with Shinji in the beginning but was too dumb as nails too see it. Asuka is appreciative of Shinji as detailed in ep11 she wants to pay him back for saving her in ep 10. Her feelings are just really guarded is why we don't see her openly thanking Shinji. Not to be all belligerent or anything but you make it seem like Asuka's playful teasing is like wifebeating. Asuka's need for earning the praise of others is no different than Shinji's pilot Eva for his dad's respect as he declare in ep 12.

@Cinias

When did Rei conclude she hates Gendo? That sounds like fix fic talk man. Rei has shown genuine concern for Gendo and knew nothing of Yui business til Eo E (which was Rei III). On another note surprisingly I agree with rebuild expanding on Rei understanding feelings Eo E Rei I still think was cool cuz she handed the entire instrumentality thing to Shinji.

Here's a page on Gendo Rei relationship

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Rei%27s_relationship_with_Gendo

I'm not talking in terms of shipping; I'm talking about who is the 'ideal woman'. Normally I'd think S Hinjix Asuka would be cute and work; but I like the Les Yaya of Asukax Mari.

@ Couchpotato several posts back: Evangelion has a "primary love interest?" It's hardly a love story. Certainly the subject comes up since it's about a teenage boy, but I always thought that for a character to be a "love interest" they actually have to get together with the lead. Shinji is certainly attracted to both Asuka and Rei, and it's very strongly implied they both reciprocate, but this never goes anywhere.

Also, it is not stated "over and over again" that Rei is a clone. In fact, it's never mentioned in the series itself. It's implied, but it's only been stated in le manuel.

edited 29th Jun '12 4:19:12 PM by HamburgerTime

Personally, I look at these relationships by way of who would most help them get through their problems. I agree, Asuka needs someone who can give her praise, and at the same time, help her get over her personal problems. Unfortunately, to me at least, that person isn't Shinji. He's just far too spineless, and since he has similar issues, but deals with them in completely different manners, I just don't see this being a long lasting relationship. While yes, Misato X Kaji does have similarities with the Asuka X Shinji ship, Kaji wasn't a spineless wimp, could stand up for himself, and was able to help Misato work through her problems. Until he died that is, in which everything went back to normal.

Again though, do feel free to counter-argue.

I would argue there are no real canonical relationships in NGE, not even hinted at. Beyond maybe Misato and Kaji sorta hooking up again, but even that's stretching it.

Eh, my opinion the story was the reason for relationships going downhill. At ep 12 the Hope Spot is unbelievably blatant however once the angels start stepping their game up all Eva pilots confidence starts swirling down the drain, n relationships breakdown like janga blocks. I relate Shinji toKaji cuz of their indifference to being insulted by the girls Misato/Asuka. Asuka's whole thing with praise seems like something she needs to get over herself rather than something she needs in a lover.

EDIT:

No more ship talk for me. I'm exhausted from babysitting.

edited 29th Jun '12 4:38:56 PM by Couchpotato20

For Shinji it's not so much indifference as much as he's just checked out. I think one of the things about NGE is that none of the characters seem to be able to truly relate to one another, with like the exception of say Magma Diver where Misato and Asuka have the closest thing to a heart to heart. But in general the characters suffer alone, instead of suffering together.

That is the truth. Romance was never the focal point of the series, for good reason.

Wonder how Rebuild is gonna handle this angle?

Asuka x Kaworu is the best ship ever. Or rather, the most hilarious one. xDD

...But the two never interact in the original series...

I know! But can you imagine someone like Kaworu and someone like Asuka talking? It would be hilarious!

She'd probably call him out on his pretentious, cryptic foreshadowing. Yeah, that would be pretty funny.

...or kick him in the nuts. Provided he has them, that is.

Shinji would know. :3

It's never boring when Kaworu's around.

I hope Rebuild has those two interact at some point.

If it's hilarious enough, I might even hail Rebuild as one of the greatest movies of all time.

Considering Kaworu's part in delaying 3rd Impact in 2.22, i'd say he's going to be a major player in 3. As is space-pirate/sniper Asuka. Just think, she blasts past the sun, responding to Kaworu's cryptic comments with heavyhanded abuse only she could give, before sniping him point blank in the face.

Kaworu raises his AT field to deflect the attack, and at the same time jacks Unit 02 with Asuka still inside. He draws the prog-knife, ready to cut Unit 02's vital circuits... when Shinji jumps into the battle with Kaworu's unit and impales him. Kaworu asks if the Eva feels familiar, and reveals it's the TV series' Unit 01, which then takes in Shinji, Kaworu and Asuka to meat Mari, Rei (+2) and... Asuka?

It turns out space-pirate/sniper Asuka is Asuka from the end of EoE, and the real Asuka died in the Unit 03 calamity. Also, Rei +2 and Mari died in the battle on earth (Because SEELE), meaning the meeting is one between souls, stored within Kaworu and Old!Unit 01, seeing as Kaworu is basically the Messiah, overseeing the first 3rd Impact and the other worlds before it. Also, Mari is Shinji from EoE.

...wow, I really went off on a tangent there :/

edited 2nd Jul '12 2:46:11 AM by MrMallard