Nah, Turkey is on there own on this one.

They shot down a Russian jet INSIDE Syrian airspace this last time.

They deserve what comes next.

edited 30th Nov '15 4:02:17 PM by Imca

The jet was in Turkish airspace at the time of firing. Missile travel time does not turn a legal shot into an illegal shot according to international law.

Plus then there's Article 6 of the NATO charter...

Putin's counting on something breaking up NATO via the unwillingness of the West to actually defend themselves. Refusing an Article 6 call by Turkey would render all of NATO worthless as a political and military force in terms of both credibility and competence.

Turkey also lied about how long the craft was there and how many warnings it gave. Plus the destruction of the search and rescue craft by Turkish backed and commanded rebels. And the killing of the other pilot as he descended via parachute, which is a pretty serious war crime.

Not to mention Turkey's direct support of ISIS in the area and general belligerence and abusing it's NATO membership to carry out genocides by proxy and settle old grudges.

Frankly there's an extremely strong case for outright booting them out of NATO.

They're turning us into a joke because they know how badly we need Istanbul.

edited 30th Nov '15 4:20:09 PM by LeGarcon

Garcon: Lol. No. Kinda funny given Turkey provided recordings of the warning given to the Russian craft, the Russians have frequently made incursions into the airspace with armed craft, and they have also been doing quite a bit more then bombing ISIS in fact they have been bombing just about everyone who isn't Russian or Assad's forces. I mean its not like the Russians have an extensive history of doing this. /sarcasm.

Regarding the Japanese transports, I'm pretty sure I've seen all three of them. The perks of being stationed overseas.

How German Tornado jets can help the anti-IS alliance in Syria

@ Garcon: If you knock Turkey out of NATO, Greece would have to go as well, due to one of those disputes over their Aegean border. If you kick one out but not the other, it would be seen as taking sides in the dispute.

Well, its not like greece does any thing but weigh people down any more any way, it is essentially Europe's Detroit.

@ AFP: I did not think the C-2 was in service yet.

Thought I had seen a C-2. Maybe they were showing off one of the prototypes, or maybe I just misremembered.

I don't like the Turkish government anymore than the next guy, but Putin's plane was in Turkish territory when it got blatted out of the sky by that F-16.

Still a pretty big and unneeded escalation of force. It was in there for less than 17 seconds and every other time that's happened with any other NATO member it hasn't resulted in the destruction of the craft, killing the search and rescue team and executing one of the pilots.

The investigation team for the crash of AirAsia Flight QZ8501 has concluded that the crash was caused by a combination of a faulty rudder control system and pilot error.

Oi, Tuffers, was this you?

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-tale-of-when-a-marine-mechanic-stole-an-a-4-skyhawk-1745015819

How did you...I mean I know nothing about such an event ever occurring. <_< >_>. Lol. I saw that earlier apparently the crazy bugger got off light.

edited 1st Dec '15 10:28:32 PM by TuefelHundenIV

"Unneeded escalation"? What, Turkey wasn't constantly telling the Russians in the last 4 weeks or so not to do what they were doing (specifically in that area, Turkey's not saying that Russia shouldn't intervene, rather they shouldn't do so near their borders)? Heck, they even summoned the Russian ambassador in Ankara 2 weeks ago, to explain why Russia's still doing it and to inform the Russians not to do it.

edited 2nd Dec '15 1:53:11 AM by entropy13

entropy: Like I said earlier this isn't exactly the first time the Russians have been acting the asshats.

We cover civilian aircraft here too?

Are pilots liscences general aviaton, or are there diffrent ones for helicopters and airplanes.

The later makes a whole lot more sense due to how diffrent the two are, but I have never heard any one talk about there aiplane or helicopters licence, only pilots.

At least here in the UK you have the Private Pilot's License (PPL) and the PPL(H). The former is for fixed wing aircraft, the latter for rotary wing aviation (i.e. helicopters). For obvious reasons one does not cover the other.

There are different licences for fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters, and within that there are different ratings for different aircraft — for example, single-engined and twin-engined aircraft or IFR flight.

As well, pilots of individual types of aircraft may need additional type training or a certain level of experience.

edited 2nd Dec '15 12:29:18 PM by Greenmantle

Why are single vs multiple engine seperated?

Is it assumed size of the aircraft, or is there some handling diffrence I dont understand?

Also I know that drivers liscences dont transfer between countries, do pilots liscences? I would assume there would have to be at least some leway there due to how much easier it is for an airplane to hop a pond then a car.

A failure of one engine in a multi-engine aircraft is a very different issue than the failure of the lone engine in a single engine aircraft, for one thing. The latter plane will immediately head down.

Oh.... Thats so obvious I do not know why I did not realize it. ._.;

I guess its because I was thinking more about the actual operation of the aircraft then what you do if something goes wrong.

Twins are usually complex aircraft (which are another type of rating!) - you're not just juggling the throttle and mixture, you're also mucking around with landing gear, propeller pitch, and other stuff in addition to that, which demands a certain level of skill. That and twin engined aircraft are operated slightly differently to single engined designs - do the terms V_MCA and V_MCG (minimum controllability speed during take off and whilst airborne respectively with one engine inoperative) mean anything to you?

Yes, if a single engine aircraft suffers an engine failure during takeoff it immediately comes back down.