Sid Meier's Civilization Series (Main Titles)

Well, they were using a different Montezuma in the first four games. But the new Montezuma makes so much more sense.

Do they have to replace Montezuma? I wouldn't mind if most of the Civs kept their leaders.

Cleopatra is Egypt's leader?

UUUUUUUUGH.

edited 28th May '16 11:08:46 AM by KnownUnknown

What's wrong with that?

Probably that she's famous but Egypt basically ended under her reign. And also because the Egyptians considered her Greek, I think.

Quill 18 did a pair of videos covering what he saw he got to play the game at a Firaxis event thing. It's got gameplay footage but it's provided footage and not his personal stuff from the 60 turns they let him play, still he talks about what's new and different in Civ VI.

Cleo was Macedonian, not Egyptian. Still, it is another female leader, I am not going to complain. And she is the most famous, even if not the most successful.

If they choose Cleopatra, I hope they at least do the bloody research and use Hellenic Egypt instead of Ancient Egypt - because Cleopatra ruling over the latter is almost a cliché at this point.

edited 28th May '16 2:44:39 PM by DrunkenNordmann

All the civs are a broad anachronism of different eras. Japan gets both samurai and fighter planes, for example.

Edit: To be fair, those are closer in history than Cleo was to ancient Egypt.

Perhaps a better example would be how the very concept of "China" covers countless different dynasties with rulers of different ethnicities and values.

edited 28th May '16 2:53:16 PM by Clarste

Well, she's not the only leader in the series whose career ended in failure. There's Napoleon (who, arguably, was not ethnically French either), Boudicca and the younger Montezuma. Probably some others I'm forgetting.

I dig the animation on Roosevelt in that video. Doesn't sound like they replicated his actual voice, though. I also like how the "unknown" parts of the map look like blank parchment on a map rather than being covered in a Fog of War.

We are closer to Cleo than she was to the first Pharaoh, Narmer. Think about that.

To answer why it's a Berserk Button to me, as far as I'm concerned it's like bringing back India and making the ruler Robert Clive or any of these guys. In general, I dislike Cleopatra or anyone in her dynasty being associated with Egyptian culture, though to be fair it's mostly Hype Backlash to the truly obscene amount of media that treats her as though she's the most important figure in Egyptian civilization.

Yeah, I agree with that. I wouldn't mind at all if it's explicitly the Ptolemaic Kingdom, though I would still miss regular Egypt.

edited 28th May '16 11:55:27 PM by KnownUnknown

China was conquered by various groups over and over again, but historians came up with the idea of the Mandate of Heaven to explain that anyone who managed to actually rule for any length of time was the rightful ruler, because otherwise heaven would have conspired to have them overthrown. Which they were. A lot.

So pretty much any Chinese ruler they've used in the series could be considered a foreign barbarian making a mockery of Chinese culture, by some other Chinese dynasty.

edited 28th May '16 11:55:56 PM by Clarste

The basic difference being that in Egypt's case that was largely decided by people looking at Egypt from the outside.

As far as I'm aware, for centuries Cleopatra has considered been far more relevant to Western audiences (which makes sense, given how emphasized Hellenistic culture has been and still is in the evolution of Western culture) than it has been is to Egyptian ones.

Plus, if they wanted to do a kingdom/dynasty of Egypt that's distinct from what they've already done, there are likewise better choices, given both the reasons you stated and how atypical Cleopatra is in general - Egypt has had a lot of dynasties. For another ruler who brought a very different ideology to Egypt during his reign, why not use Akhenaten (and/or Nefertiti), who is indigenous yet barely appears in anything?

edited 29th May '16 12:16:34 AM by KnownUnknown

I'm not sure there's a difference when the people on the inside are also the conquerors. Cleopatra apparently considered herself Egyptian, unlike some of her predecessors, and I'm not sure why that shouldn't be enough.

edited 29th May '16 12:18:55 AM by Clarste

I'm surprised they didn't go with the boy king Tutankhamun,he is at least in the same level of pop culture as Cleo

Possible leader leak◊, though the last two sentences make me think it's a troll.

I certainly hope it's a troll.

edited 29th May '16 11:19:39 AM by Druplesnubb

Dandolo's Venice, again, in the base game? Not buying it.

>Possible leader leak

too blury

Given that it says "PLEASE DO NOT SHARE THIS WITH ANYONE, I AM NOT EVEN SURE WHY I AM WRITING THIS UP I GUESS I MUST BE A RETARD" at the bottom, it's definitely a troll.

Well, he's less known as a ruler - as far as everybody knows, he hasn't done anything substantial - and more known as a curse-inducing force of nature.

Tutankhamun is really only well-known because he had the best-preserved tomb ever found. That said, he did do one important thing: reinstate polytheism after his father imposed a new, monotheistic state religion (that nobody liked).

He gave his life for tourism.

Special ability: All archaeologists who enter your territory will die five turns later.