A Song Of Ice And Fire

I can really appreciate Stannis's lack of charisma. We have it drilled into our heads, especially in democratic societies where election campaigns have basically become advertising drives with high price tags and high stakes, that charismatic or superficially likeable individuals make for the best leaders. In a lesser story, Renly would be the hero outright, specifically due to his personal magnetism, but here he's little more than a handsome sleazeball. Stannis isn't a perfect leader, but he's an example of how competence can exist without charisma and how people unjustly dismiss personally unappealing people at the expense of the law or competent leadership.

This "a leader has to be charismatic" thing is mostly true in the US and in France, where persons are elected, not parties. Other countries give opportunities for less "appealing" leaders to have a chance to shine (I don't think Angela Merkel was quite as popular as she is now back when she was elected, and was certainly not seen as charismatic).

Martin being American, it is very likely not a coincidence.

Democracy Is Flawed.

That's why Westeros ain't got time for that.

They need One realm, One god, One king.

I like that Stannis is like King Arthur gone wrong. Things hardly ever go in his favor and he wont quit because as long as people are pretending like the laws of Westeros exist he is going to adhere to the laws of Westeros.

So I'm starting the book series. My friends are all into the TV series but I'm a purist so while I'll be happy to watch the HBO adaptation later on, I'd prefer to know a bit more about the source material first ya know?

Anyway, I'm not too far into things considering how long each book is and that there are...five of them, right? I'm only on the first bit with Dany in Book 1. I get the vague feeling her brother might end up being a major antagonist but I kinda feel for him and sympathize with his position. I mean, I guess Daenyrs hasn't had it any either but on the one hand, she never knew what she lost. What's the old expression, you can't miss what you never had? Her brother seems to have a better inkling of what he lost.

Also I'm being introduced to not only Loads And Loads Of Characters but also Loads and Loads of Names and Words and Terms and....yeah. Is Martin good at actually explaining all these things when they become more relevant or important? 'cause right now I've been bombarded with lore and I have no context for any of it.

Take your time, it'll be thirty years before this series is over.

As for the explaining things issue… well, I guess I'll just that the series is one the benefits from a reread. There's lots of little bits where, if the reader remembers a name that was mentioned in passing 150 pages ago in a completely different context, they can see a twist coming a mile away.

For me, stannis and renly show how much morality and empathy is linked in ficción

While renly is not a bad guy, he is clearly more a movie star or Male modelo:charming,sexy and with a touch to saying the right world to the right people

Instead stannis is competent but a hardass, and more important, He KNOWS is status so he trust un davos in kept him honest, while merssile kept him focus in the greater good

In a more typical book, renly will be the hero, because beauty equal goodness

Anyway, im reading feast of crow, and let me tell you, jon is so much better as a not POV chararter, really

So does all the political intrigue and shit relate back to the prologue with the zombies because all the royals will be too busy plotting and trying to kill each other to effectively defend against the undead horde outside The Wall?

Not gonna lie, I'm rooting for the zombies considering most of the characters I've met.

The Others make only a few appearances and their progress is very slow. The intrigue is the meat of the story.

edited 18th Sep '14 7:02:55 PM by CrimsonZephyr

yeah, pretty much

also, im the only one who is bother by ghis in the novels? i meant they act like a over the top slaver who delight in who evil they are,s it really jarring

Which city of Ghis? To me, only Astapor acted like a Card-Carrying Villain

yeah i think that one, i meant the whole discussion between dany and the slaver was so pointless evil that it make the drow looks competent

It's not really pointlessly evil. It's about dehumanizing the Unsullied so they can be perfect warriors.

And this would be the point where I point you towards the Meereenese Blot, but that's full of ADWD spoilers, so I won't do that.

The whole Slaver's Bay plot is one of the reasons I just laugh and roll my eyes whenever someone says all of Martin's characters are morally ambiguous or something.

Yeah, the talk between the slaver and dany feel like a typical GM setup, you could almost see the lawfull evil aligment in his head

also, i think a there is a lot of hype in how dark this series is

edited 19th Sep '14 3:33:35 PM by unknowing

Most of Essos seems more like stereotypes about "Arabian Nights" Days on steroids, with rapacious slavery, torture porn, and decadence.

really? aside of the slavers and the dotharki with their horse-gushing aproach furry leves for me(if funny who nobody make the obvious joke here)

The Dothraki are a mix of Native Americans as well as Mongols, Tatars, Uyghurs and other nomandic races. Slaver's Bay is indeed based on medieval (but non-Islamic) Mesopotamia/North Africa. Qarth is, more or less, Constantinople at its peak.

Then you also have the Free Cities. Which are basically the italian city-states, with some Ancient/Roman Athens (Pentos) thrown in. As for the more exotic locations, Valyria is Ancient Rome-meets-Atlantis, Old Ghis is Carthage, Yi Ti is medieval China and Asshai is a mix of India & Sassanid Persia.

edited 19th Sep '14 8:10:12 PM by LogoP

also, braavos is part venice, part rodas, with the titan see very familiar of the colossus of rodas

also, if there not a city with Pyramid in it? it dont remnber it if ghis of slaver bay

Ghis ( Old & New) is technically located in Ghiscar, next to the Gulf of Grief. Which is located just south of Slaver's Bay. You could lump them together.

edited 19th Sep '14 8:37:01 PM by LogoP

i have to remneber, it is old ghis the one with the pyrminds?

Yes. Old Ghis, like most cities in the area ^note : including Slaver's Bay , had pyramids.

ok , what is for favorite civilization in the book?

i like the dotharki, except their pathological obsession with horses, and the worse for me are slaver bay, by how over the top evil they are