A Song Of Ice And Fire

I love when people think the older generations are these pure, innocent, sexless beings.

If you're referring to the conversation between me and Jonny it was mostly run on Joking Mode.

Yes. Obviously I'd never buy my sainted mother anything rude.

Old people? Sexless?

Wishful thinking.

Thinking about what? Old people not being sexless? GRRM laughing? GRRM not being sexless?

Wishful thinking, that old people are sexless. The alternative is too horrifying to contemplate.

You know GRRM writes all the sex scenes with one hand don't you?

edited 26th Jul '14 3:01:09 PM by MadSkillz

Since when do people not write with one hand? How big are the pencils you're using?

Well I assume he writes by typing

Way to ruin the joke >:/

edited 26th Jul '14 5:34:53 PM by LogoP

*applause*

I found the idea that novel manuscripts are written in pencil the most amusing in all of this.

I can just imagine the childish scrawl.

"Winds off Winntur by mee, Gorge Rr Martinn aged 65 3/4"

I think we all know that while he claims to use an outdated computer, Martin is covering for the fact that he writes the books with a quill pen on vellum.

What, while he's whacking off?

That sounds like some impressive multitasking.

Oh, that reminded me of something. I've commented in the past how there's some moments in Arrianne and Dany chapters where the descriptions seem male gazey and I can tell that there's a male author behind the female voice.

Well, Martin definitely isn't the worst about this. I was reading this book review recently (I think it was of The Grim Company), and the review noted this scene from the POV of the main female protagonist where it's something like "she looked in the mirror and admired her soft, voluptuous body and perky breasts". Honestly, I'm only slightly paraphrasing here.

That's what I call writing with one hand.

Edit- Yes, that's the book and here's the review.

For the record, the description is as follows:

"Yllandris rose hastily, brushing ash from the silk shawl straining against her breasts. Sweat moistened her bronze skin, running in beads down her perfectly flat stomach. Her hair was so dark as to appear almost purple, complementing the violet paint she wore on her lips and under her eyes. She gave it a shake and it fell almost to her waist, an impressive mane of hair that resembled the great Highland cat: a regal, graceful creature, yet utterly vicious when provoked. Yllandris smiled, revealing perfect white teeth. Regal, graceful and deadly was exactly how she would describe herself."

So, perhaps a slight exaggeration on my part but still pretty egregious.

edited 27th Jul '14 6:47:06 PM by Hodor

When I read something like that I can't help but assume the subtext that this character is incredibly vain (or possibly insecure, and giving herself a pep-talk) is deliberate, because it seems to be beating you around the head with it. But then you realise, no, more often than not it's just a really ham-fisted way to tell you what she looks like and how hot she is.

True that. I will add that example at some point.

I've actually seen some male examples of that kind of description (thinking of Tom Ripley and James Bond) where it actually is in-character and fits the character's combination of self-loathing and sociopathic egotism.

I think the male gaze part on Arianne is pretty deliberate and justified because Arys Oakheart is in lust after her and because Arianne is pretty proud of her body.

I think Sansa's is way more problematic. I was uncomfortable when it was mentioned that her boobs were getting so big that her dress could barely contain them since she was hitting puberty and that the stableboy would stare a lot at her.

edited 27th Jul '14 7:42:20 PM by MadSkillz

Funnily enough, while it would be entirely in-character for Arianne to be that narcissistic, she's actually first introduced from the perspective of a satellite character whose defining attribute is being horny for her...

Hm. I don't think that GRRM is bad at describing male beauty/bodies, either. Just look at Ned talking about Robert or Jon observing Satin.

edited 27th Jul '14 7:48:20 PM by LogoP

This series could use an overweight female Po V.

Too many female Po Vs are described as beautiful or pretty and it's always bugged me.

I wish GRRM had made Fat Walda a Po V.

If Fat Walda would ever be a POV, she'd be a prologue or an epilogue. She kind of has 'dead meat' tattooed on her forehead.

edited 27th Jul '14 9:38:12 PM by RandomaNama

She stumbles upon a secret chamber in the deepest, coldest depths of the Dreadfort. She walks in on the Rooseman greeting a guest from way the fuck up north, who he is overheard addressing as nuncle. She knows too much now...

edited 27th Jul '14 10:53:12 PM by MabuseTheGambler

Most of the POV characters have the same tattoo.:V