Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Know I asked this before, but the difference between a Generic Doomsday Villain who does things For the Evulz, and someone, such as, say, The Joker, is the GDM has basically no personality or characterization?

I'd say what the blue hell are you talking about since the Joker has enough personality and characterisation to be able to write multiple essays on.

A Generic Doomsday Villian is generic. There's nothing that stands out about them, nothing unique about them, you could swap one with another and you'd get the same results.

@ the Nicholai Zinoviev discussion, I vote cut. He's a mercenary motivated by profit, and canon shows that after Racoon City Umbrella kept him on the payroll, meaning that Umbrella itself saw nothing wrong with his methods. In fact there's no difference between what he does and what Umbrella encourages people to do; Umbrella's killed plenty of their own men for profit (killing Marcus to get his T-Virus), using people for testing (the plot of the original game, what happened to the wife and daughter of the man who designed the masnion, Sheena island), and trying to kill the Wolfpack can't be counted against him since the Wolfpack are Villian Protagonists who throughout the game make things worse for everyone stuck in the city and would have indirectly caused hundreds if not thousands of deaths on their own when they shut off the power system to cripple attempts to communicate or organise a defence.

I would like to re open discussion on an arkham city example, and no, it is not the penguin, it is Hugo Strange. From what I can tell, the only reason he was cut was because people see him as a Well Intentoned Extremist. I would like to point out that while he does want to kill all the bad people in Arkham city, he is not doing it out of the goodness of his heart, he is doing it for the fame that comes from being the one to get rid of them. It's not about justice, it's about him gaining fame and notorioty. Lets not forget the fact that he plans to kill all the politocle prisoners in there as well.

He's also little more than Ra's a Ghul's pawn

I mean while someone like Joker DOES have personality, a GDM doesn't.

As for Hugo: As Heinous as Joker? I think that was why Penguin was cut.

Someone mentioned Buddy from the nutty professor, cut it. He's really just a villainous Jerkass. I'd hesitate to even say he's evil in the literal sense.

@X Filo on Highlander, who's the slave owner? That's not ringing any bells.

Edit, oh Walker, I'd hesitate, he seems kind of insane. Granted, he is scouting out girls for something questionable when we meet him in the present, and has one killed for not being able to hold her booze and drugs and passing out en route to him, and he kidnaps a female watcher(who is Joe's daughter)and tries to trade her for Methos head.

But again, he's kinda insane. I'd say it could go either way.

edited 5th Apr '13 5:51:41 PM by shoboni

I would like to suggest one from the Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated series.

The Nibiru Entity. He is directly responsible for every single bad thing to happen in the entire series by corrupting innocent people into borderline Complete Monsters themselves. When he's finally unleashed from his prison, what does he do? Unleashes a World-Wrecking Wave, reducing Crystal Cove to flaming ruins followed by eating the entire town one by one and loving every second of it. Made worse by the fact his race are nearly all benevolent beings who help humanity. After he's erased from existence, we see that without his influence, Crystal Cove is a normal, happy town with the original Mystery Inc living happy, fulfilling lives.

The character is truly heinous by the standards of the story, which makes no attempt to present the character in any positive way.

This is a being that comes from a race of largely benevolent creatures who have helped humanity for centuries, and yet is irredeemably evil beyond all measure. He cares about nothing but power and will do anything to obtain it, even ruining and ending hundreds of lives.

And Blue-and-Orange Morality is not an issue because, as mentioned, his race is largely benevolent and helpful to humanity.

It's made absolutely clear that he's a being the world is FAR better off without.

As for the 'most heinous villain in the setting'; he eats an entire town including men women and children, simply to increase his strength, and his words implied he had no intentions of stopping there. Even if his status as The Man Behind the Man doesn't qualify him for that, this one act most certainly does.

The character's terribleness is played seriously at all times, evoking fear, revulsion and hatred from the other characters in the story.

He has no element of comedy to him at all, the heroes are horrified by his actions, and have absolutely no qualms about outright killing him, even while he's still imprisoned.

They are completely devoid of altruistic qualities. They show no regret for their crimes.

He's laughing his head off as he eats an entire town, I that shows how little remorse he has.

As for the Generic Doomsday Villain, the Entity is portrayed as manipulative, intelligent, power hungry, and cruel. His motivation is power and he's clearly intelligent and interacts with the characters both vocally and physically.

edited 5th Apr '13 6:09:52 PM by Godzillawolf

Yowza, that's a Scooby-Doo villain?

Yeah, I know. That was my reaction. It didn't help that the 'eating the entire town part' was onscreen.

How is Walker any more insane than the other villains? He never demonstrates 'insanity' or anything beyond being a control freak and evil jerk.

I can't believe I'm saying this...but I'll lean towards including the Entity unless someone can rebut all that

edited 5th Apr '13 6:16:35 PM by Lightysnake

Believe me, I'm every bit as shocked I was able to write all of that truthfully about a Scooby Doo villain without exaggerating anything.

That's... at least as dark as Zombie Island. It's a different continuity so we can still keep the guy from that, but jeez...

On Hugo Strange, it was an easy cut. He is a Well-Intentioned Extremist working for a Well-Intentioned Extremist. Nothing throughout the game indicates that when he's talking about Batman being responsible for all the villians in Gotham is a lie, he certainly wants to beat Batman but that doesn't disqualify him from WIE, and we have allowed plenty of characters whose plans would involve innocent collatoral as WIE, that's where the Extremist part comes from.

So I'm failing to see how we got it wrong the first time by classifying him as a Knight Templar. He's also not as Henious as the Joker and has some standards (for instance he holds a hostage to get Batman to stop his ascent, but lets the hostage go after he does stop for a time).

Yeah, from what I've seen Mystery INC is very much Darker and Edgier, even more so then Zombie Island or Witches Ghost.

edited 5th Apr '13 7:18:29 PM by shoboni

True, but lets look at the next top contender in that continuity, Professor Pericles;

Killed multiple people, manipulated everyone, and tried to commit mass murder.

The Entity did all of the above and succeeded in committing mass murder and was the one who corrupted Pericles in the first place (from how its described, it seems Pericles was basically possessed by The Entity, who always corrupts the Team Pet to try and free him because his species use animals as hosts and that's the best he can do while he's sealed away). So I think by the heinousness standard, The Entity still tops Pericles.

But yeah, it was Darker and Edgier.

edited 5th Apr '13 7:13:00 PM by Godzillawolf

Vote keep on Nicolai from Resident Evil 3 and Keep on the entity from Scooby Doo Mystery Inc.

@Light, watch the beginning of that episode again. He's completely off his rocker when he kills the slave girl and challenges Methos in the middle of the crowded street.

That's him being an unstable bastard. That's not lacking moral agency. He can till discern consequences and right or wrong.

Unstable is the key word.

But like I said, I'm on the fence and could see it going either way.

Being 'unstable' has never been a disqualifier here unless it affects their agency. We have the Joker, Norman Osborn...

edited 5th Apr '13 8:24:30 PM by Lightysnake

There's also the matter of him not doing much besides that, which could be considered a crime of passion. He's a dirtbag for sure, but I'm torn on if you could really call him a CM considering what the other C Ms in Highlander have done.

We know for certain he runs said white slaving operation and see what he does (using his position as an agent for a modeling form to lure girls into it). That's simply a different flavor of evil than the others.

I'm not entirely sure what he was doing, I couldn't tell if he was a human trafficker, a pimp, or a porn producer.

He's a human trafficker, that's made abundantly clear. He references slavery several times in that end and selling the girls.

I must have been in La La land both times I watched that one if that's the case.