During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to another Crane and Luthor
In love with an Uptown Girl
Aye to Lex and Crane.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Xover Lex - great comic, by the by - and Nolanvelisation!Scarecrow.
We have a bunch of villains up who want to make the world "better" but are just A God Am I weirdos. Like, if we have villains who want to destroy the world so it can be remade In Their Own Image, even if they claim they want a perfect world, I don't see how Crane's motives can be disqualifying or altruistic, especially given his inner monologues.
As for heinousness, I think he just about edges it by virtue of fully understanding what the Ghulies want and being super down for it. Also, the peppermint of smaller crimes to garnish his career help.
I think miraculous was going to do The Evil Within 2, so I think it would be best to PM them about it.
edited 10th Dec '17 10:14:08 PM by PolarPhantom
V
Nolan!Scarecrow, once again.
True, Polar Phantom. And yet, I still don't think Hive from '"Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'' counts due to his final scene, though he does embody most of what you're saying.
to Novel!Scarecrow.
edited 10th Dec '17 11:04:32 PM by speyeker
Goku Black
As far as The Evil Within 2 goes I've kinda hit a bit of a snag and am a bit busy at the moment. So it's okay if anyone else wants to efforrpost him as he's an easy a keeper as you'll get. I will get to it soon though if they don't.
Crane,Luthor & Felix
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
The two Darkseids. Also ravok. Why did he do that to you ?
edited 11th Dec '17 4:35:52 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yea to Crane.
Alright, one more crossover from me tonight and thanks to Overlord for pointing this one out to me... me and Ravok are going to have a Darkseid dual proposal. Let's get the first out of the way.
What's the setting?
Uncanny X-Men and the New Teen Titans... speaks for itself as to who's crossing over. Premise that starts off the story is that dreams of the recently-deceased Jean Grey, the Phoenix, are now haunting Professor Xavier and Raven of the Teen Titans. Complicating matters further is the arrival of Parademons on Earth, led by Deathstroke the Terminator. The Teen Titans and the X-Men are lured together as they figure out that this is all part of a grand plan to resurrect the Dark Phoenix for the nefarious goals of none other than Darkseid.
Who is Darkseid? What has he done?
Tyrant ruler of Apokolips and main villain of this crossover, Darkseid is seeking to expand his glorious empire across the cosmos, and he's decided that the powers of the Dark Phoenix are exactly what he needs for this. Taking the Mobius Chair from Metron from a deal held in front of the Source Wall and later setting his sights on Earth, Darkseid employs Deathstroke to his cause and sending his dull minion Ravok to aid, with intent to kidnap the Teen Titans and the X-Men. After some complications, this goes swimmingly... although Ravok messes up a few times, prompting Darkseid to coldly murder Ravok on the spot with his Omega Beams as a demonstration to Deathstroke. With the X-Men and the Teen Titans all in place, Darkseid uses his powers to draw into their memories and dreams of Phoenix — causing all of them tortuous agony — and eventually resurrecting the Dark Phoenix.
From here, Darkseid illustrates his exact plan... with the Dark Phoenix's power, Darkseid will terraform Earth into a second Apokolips, destroying most life on it while sending Parademons to extinguish any resistance, before doing the same to New Genesis and eventually embarking on a campaign with the Dark Phoenix's powers to repeat the process on every inhabited world in the universe. Leaving the Titans and X-Men stranded in space to surely die, the two teams ally with each other and use the Mobius Chair to get back to Earth, fighting their way into the subterranean cave under New York from which Darkseid is executing his plan, intending to use the Dark Phoenix's powers to inflame the Earth's core and rise up massive "hell-pits" to first swallow New York and several other populated areas, expanding them until they swallow the entire planet.
Merrily seeing Dark Phoenix beat down the heroes, the tide turns and Kid Flash manages to burn Darkseid's eye by forcing his Omega Beams right into them... with Dark Phoenix weakened and struggling to retain her physical form, Darkseid instructs her to possess Cyclops. Unfortunately, the memories of Jean's former lover reinvigorate her and allow her to overcome the Dark Phoenix's power... utterly furious at Darkseid for what he did to her and realizing she has no place among the living, Jean tackles Darkseid and launches herself across the cosmos and right into the Source Wall, resulting in a glorious burst of flame that destroys both her and Darkseid.
Any mitigating factors?
It's Darkseid.
Conclusion?
Darkseid. Keep? Wow. Amazing.
Thoughts?
edited 10th Dec '17 11:21:38 PM by Scraggle
Caesar
A 'Yes' to Dear Daddy Darkseid....him killing ME solidifies the deal. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
And now, my own iteration...
What's the work?
Superman/Aliens is, as usual, exactly what it sounds like. Superman VS the Xenomorphs from the Alien franchise.
Now, the first comic arc doesn't have any Keeps...the villains are solely the Xenomorphs themselves. The sequel, God War, on the other hand?
Who is he?
The Lord of Apokolips, Darkseid. Ruling over the hellish planet as absolute tyrant as per usual, Darkseid kicks the story off when he learns that a large spacecraft is barrelling past Apokolips...
What has he done?
Seeking to learn who would dare to fly so close to Apokolips' atmosphere, Darkseid has his minions use a tractor beam to drag the spacecraft down to Apokolips...when his head scientist Dr. Jinn points out that, at the trajectory it is heading, the spacecraft will crash directly into the slave-filled hellhole known as Armagetto and likely kill millions of Darkseid's tormented slaves? Darkseid coldly orders him to continue on, and the spacecraft does indeed crash into Armagetto and wipe out countless screaming people.
Heading onto the spacecraft, Darkseid discovers the ship void of all life except that of creepy eggs...that hold Facehuggers, alien lifeforms that implant eggs of Xenomorphs into living hosts. When Dr. Jinn proclaims his desire to study the Facehuggers, Darkseid obliges his request...by sealing him in a room with one, and callously brushing off the man's pleads for mercy as the Facehugger implants an egg into him and his body explodes, unleashing a Xenomorph from the inside.
Gleefully realizing what this means, Darkseid forcibly implants hundreds of his Parademon soldiers with Xenomorph eggs, then sends them to wage a full-scale slaughter against Apokolips' neighboring world, New Genesis.
As Darkseid's Parademon soldiers kill many innocents on New Genesis, the worst is yet to come...even as New Genesis beats the Parademons back, the Xenomorphs burst from the Parademons' chests, unleashing swarms of Xenomorphs that slaughter everything in their path. In the process, the New Genesis warrior, Orion (Also Darkseid's son), gets implanted with a Xenomorph egg.
As Superman arrives, he realizes what he must do, as he teams with Orion and heads to Apokolips to snuff out the Xenomorph Queen, which controls the Hive Mind that all Xenomorphs are connected to.
Once they arrive, they head to Armagetto, where they discover the even more horrifying truth...Darkseid has used any survivors of the spaceship crash as hosts for the Xenomorphs, resulting in hundreds upon hundreds of people having their bodies exploded and unleashing ever more Xenomorphs.
Confronting the Xenomorph Queen, Superman and Orion try to defeat her, only for Orion's implanted Xenomorph to begin causing him severe weakness. All hope seems lost until Darkseid himself appears, destroys the Xenomorph Queen, and reveals that, even though Orion is his enemy, he is still his son and he doesn't deserve to die in such a horrible way as to be exploded by a Chestbursting Xenomorph. Sending Orion and Superman on their way, Darkseid happily notes that Orion will now feel that his father saving him was "a father's love."
"The fool."
Turns out? This entire plot was literally nothing but a scheme by Darkseid to start making Orion doubt whether Darkseid is pure evil so as to hopefully one day turn him against New Genesis and make him his slave.
And in case Orion doesn't turn on New Genesis, Darkseid has another whole armada of people being implanted by Xenomorphs so as to "unleash Hell onto New Genesis again."
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Nada. It IS Darkseid, after all. He's a pure evil monster who literally tries to weaponize a Pet the Dog moment and Even Evil Has Loved Ones. Prick.
Heinousness?
Worst in this non-canon comic as the only real villain besides the animalistic Xenomorphs themselves, and he flies past the baseline. Even for Darkseid, this iteration is plenty bad.
Final Verdict?
Keep our second Darkseid for the night.
edited 10th Dec '17 11:27:43 PM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Professor Jonathan Crane, Lex Luthor, Darkseid, and Felix Webber.
So apparently Ravok died, and I guess got resurrected and became a TV Tropes user. All right. 
GAH, and Darkseid again, apparently. Damn last-second effortposts in front of my comments. >__<
edited 10th Dec '17 11:27:56 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
The Unknown Unknown
Yes to both Darkseids.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Yes to the other Darkseid. Whew.
Yes to Darkseid, and an even bigger yes to Darkseid.
At least Darkseid has the excuse of being this since he was designed as a God of Evil from the start. It'd be kind of OOC if he wasn't this trope
to both Darkseids
Wait, is this seriously where Ravok got his username from?
Anyway, to the various comics crossover villains proposed in the last several pages (Lex, Scarecrow, the Darkseids, various Jokers - am I missing anyone?) but I do want to note that, as with Elseworlds, I think we should remember to take into account the general heinousness standard for the source comics unless the setting is dramatically altered in some way, like with that Pirate Batman thing.
Edit: Not sure about the Dark Knight Trilogy novelization Scarecrow, though. He's worse than his film counterpart, but it still seems to me like he's not so much extra-heinous as he is simply the only guy involved who's not a WIE.
edited 11th Dec '17 1:41:06 AM by nrjxll
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
A Yes to Both Darkseids
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Darkseid. You don't get to murder a member of this thread and not be put on the list
other Darkseid
to both Darkseids. With six qualifying versions, he will now replace Dracula as one of the top 10 most profilic Cm's. Dracula is now the 11th most profilic.
Meanwhile, Scarecrow is going from one literation to four. I remember the days when four seemed like an awful lot of entries for one character. Nowadays, we have Freddy, Carnage, Moriarty, Trigon, and several more characters I can't remember right now who have four each. Then there's the characters like Ultron, Braniac, and red Skull, over have more than 7 each. Than there's Satan and Jack the Ripper. And of course, above everyone else, is The Joker, who now has more than a score of entries, and will probably get more in the future. It seems just a year or two ago characters did not have nearly this many entries. Man, we have really come a long way.
Anyway, I will do my write ups for Brink and Felix in the morning. With seven entries now, you guys can decide if a age is warranted. I'm also going to try and look into this Judge Dredd game I stumbled upon, and the now non canon Buffy The Vampire Slayer film that Miraculous recommended checking to see if Lothos counts Nice to know that people can recommend works for me to check out for possible candidates like I asked.
jjj
Goku Black
I'm curious but how many does Adolf Hitler have as I see he has a few.
Also thanks for checking out Lothos as well he'd never in a million years count in the series itself but since the movie is now non-Canon, and Joss Whedon himself has declared Slayer : The origin, the proper canon origin, Lothos can be taken on his own as he's in a different continiuity.
edited 11th Dec '17 3:03:34 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That Superman stuff must've happen while I was copying and pasting the de-potholed entries. I requested the change.
Felix, Luthor; Novel!Scarecrow; and both Darkseids (I did a double-take when I read "his dull minion Ravok" ).
Man, these crossovers are gonna be a PAIN to correctly put on the pages.
EDIT: Do we wanna soft-split the Marvel page? Between the 616 and alternate continuities? The alternate ones would have:
- Anita Blake
- Apache Skies
- Ultimate Skull.
- Crossover Skull
- Deadpool Pulp
- Kurassus
- Marquis of Death
- Rudi Gagarin
- Maestro
- Otto Von Doom
- John Herod
- Supreme Power duo
- Jaekelsson
- What If? trio
- And, when he gets written up, Crossover!Scarecrow
edited 11th Dec '17 3:58:37 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Please do this as monster Marvel is an eyesore at the moment as Im unsure what villains are from what universe or who specifically comes from earth 616. Compared to Dc where its more clear who counts where.
Although Keep Maestro in 616 as he became an enemy of normal hulk and eventually went to live in 616.
edited 11th Dec '17 4:20:57 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Messenger from another dimension.
Both Darkseids
Yes to both Darkseids.
The Ravok killer and Darkseid.
Both Darkseids.
