During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Oh, I won't get grabby over an EP. This Scarecrow is indeed a yea.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Scarecrow
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to the other Scarecrow.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Thank you, that is gracious. I apologize regardless.
That version of Scarecrow is actually one I thought of proposing for a while, after hearing about this crossover on Daredevil podcast a year ago.
edited 10th Dec '17 11:08:41 AM by Overlord
Scarecrow & Scarecrow
And yes to this version of Scarecrow. Kinda glad one of my favorite Batman villains is getting his due in this regard.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Scarecrow.
to the other Scarecrow.
Scaredare.
to both scarecrows
In love with an Uptown Girl
Scarecrow from the other crossover.
Both Scarecrows
V
Scarecrow
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
A to that Other Scarecrow
Goku Black
Question about this week's batch:
Where's Jacinto from The Devil's Backbone . Didn't lighty rewrite him.
edited 10th Dec '17 2:46:39 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Did Lighty? I know he did Frankenstein; I can't remember if he did Jacinto.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I explicitly remember him doing Jacinto in the very same post he did Frankenstein.
Goku Black
Here it is. Acw missed it.
The Devil's Backbone: The ruthless Jacinto is revealed as the murderer of the ghost boy Santi. Jacinto begins delving further into darkness when he is consumed by greed as he tries to steal gold that will go to fund the Republican loyalists against Franco. Burning the orphanage to try to kill everyone within and get to the safe containing the gold, Jacinto callously murders his own girlfriend Conchita before he returns to steal his treasure. Upon encountering all the boys there, he tries to kill them as well without any hint of remorse just to feed his bottomless greed
I now added it to drafts.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Its cool. I checked and all the others are in this week's batch. So not an issue.
edited 10th Dec '17 3:11:07 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That's my bad; it'll go next week. What post was that? I wanna make sure I didn't miss any others.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Scarecrow #2.
Caesar
You know...on the note of Scarecrow and why the Film one doesn't count...I read the official Dark Knight novelization trilogy some months ago, and though I hadn't really put two and two together then, I'm now wondering something.
In the novels, Scarecrow? Is explicitly completely in on Ra's' plan to turn Gotham into a chaos-filled land of death and destruction, wanting to drive millions of people into insanity induced frenzies and watch as they tear each other apart. He also has a couple more crimes to himself.
So I guess my question would be if that was bad enough to warrant him an effortpost. Film!Scarecrow isn't portrayed as being fully complicit in Ra's' plan, and thus doesn't stand out, however with the info that he wants Gotham to tear itself apart, would that be enough of a heinous boost to make him bad enough to stand out against the Joker, who gets up to all his film crimes in the novel?
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Alright, here's the Robocop candidate.
Who are they?
Felix Webber, from episode 11 of the first live action Robocop series, "The Human Factor". He was a balding man working for Omni Consumer Products, who thought that he could use spider venom to make it so that people could regrow their hair, curing baldness. His research was unauthorized, so when the chairman found out, he was fired. Enraged at losing his job, having his research shut down, and having to live with his thinning hairline, Felix became a Mad Bomber terrorist holding Old Detroit hostage until Alex Murphy (Robocop)'s father managed to arrest him. 12 years later, Felix breaks out of prison to continue his revenge.
What does he do?
Felix starts placing bombs in OCP buildings, though Robocop manages to deactivate them. He also blows up the car of Alex Murphy's parents at the cemetery to scare them out of revenge for the father arresting him (he didn't want to kill them just yet, he wanted the father to live long enough to see the full fruits of his plan). He eventually arms a bomb powerful enough to destroy all of New Detroit, and activates it in an OCP building where he's holding two people hostage, intending to kill himself and everyone else in the city as an act of revenge for having his work shut down.
The chairman of OCP tries to reason with Felix, offering him money, but Felix refuses. The police try to trick Felix by staging a fake arrest to make it look like they are arresting the chairman for stealing Felix's research and firing him without proper cause. Felix falls for it, but he still refuses to deactivate the bomb. Thankfully, Robocop manages to stop Felix, deactivate the bomb, and rescue the hostages. After this, Felix is presumably arrested.
Heinousness?
The show can have some heinous villains at times, but Felix is the only one who tried to destroy an entire city out of spite. That and his previous attempts at destroying populated buildings is enough in my opinion. It's also indicated that he previously held Old Detroit hostage with his bombs. I don't know if this would count as Offstage Villainy due to the pattern rule, but near the end, he comments that, to get what he wanted, he had to "nuke half of Michigan".
Freudian Excuse, Redeeming features, and other mitigating factors?
This is where that unsure 10% comes into play. He was fired and had his research shut down when he was trying to work on a cure for baldness. He gives the following Motive Rant:
"The hair growth serum that I distilled from spider's venom was worth a fortune! It meant hope for millions of bald sufferers like myself! Those fools at OCP destroyed my research! They destroyed me!"
This being said, it's obviously a major case of Disproportionate Retribution. I could understand killing the chairman who fired him, but trying to destroy an entire city filled with innocent bystanders is a different case. Even after he believes that the chairman is being arrested, he still continues with his plan to destroy the city. His rant seems to imply that he empathizes with other people going bald, but he had no problem trying to destroy the city, despite the fact that there were probably many bald sufferers like him in it as well. Regardless of if his line about nuking half of Michigan can be considered offstage villainy, it still reinforces the fact that he doesn't seem to care about other bald sufferers getting killed in the crossfire. It's possible he only really cares about his own receding hairline.
He let the Murphy's off with a scare at the cemetery, but he just wanted the father to live until he destroyed the city, which would kill him along with everyone else in the end.
Conclusion?
In spite of his Motive Rant, I still think he counts. He took things WAY out of proportion, he didn't seem to care about other bald sufferers, and to be honest, there's a lot worse things that a person can go through than baldness. Being homeless is a big problem, getting cancer is a big problem, being horrifically deformed is a big problem. You know what's not a big problem? Going bald. Having your work shut down? Yeah that's unfair. You know what you should do? file a lawsuit for unjust termination. If that doesn't work? Most people would just suck it up and move on, but if you really need revenge, murdering the person who fired you alone should make you happy (not that I support that kind of a decision), but nuking the city? Yeah, I think he counts.
jjj
V
Felix and Film!Scarecrow, if he gets an EP.
edited 10th Dec '17 4:56:13 PM by MenInGreyToBlak
to Felix
edited 10th Dec '17 10:54:41 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."