During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Foreign Troper
The descision was already made who will do the effort post on Zoom, it will be De Carta, wno will also do one for Vandal Savage (btw, it's not absolutely decided that he will count, I for one have my objections).
So please wait. And just another reminder: I'm going to be the one who will do an effort post for all Season 4 Arrow Villains in two weeks, so please stick to the rules and don't discuss any of them tomorrow.
edited 25th May '16 7:36:49 AM by Forenperser
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I was just saying. I'm done trying to argue for his inclusion. ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Well, shit, you may have a point. Alright, I'm done.
edited 25th May '16 8:10:36 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
It's starting to sound like stealth complaining he's not on the list
Planeswalker
Giliand's reasoning behind saving his world is not elaborated on, but he does have a rant about how unfair it was that the Elympions were left to die. And while Tales villains do tend to be world-sacrificing types, Giliand takes clear pleasure out of watching Rieze Maxians suffering under the effects of ripping the mana out of them. Most Tales villains don't take pleasure out of the other world's struggles, they just see it as the means to an end. That's part of the reason I thought maybe despite wanting to save his world he might qualify, because he clearly enjoys inflicting pain and misery.
Anyways, here's the writeups for the Dragon Prince villains. There were a few abstentions on some of them but no downvotes so I just got them all done.
Dragon Prince: High Prince Rolestra is an Evil Prince with a very high level of depravity. After murdering his father at the tender age of eight, he ascends to Princemarch's throne and used his position to play other princes against each other for his own amusement, nearly causing several wars. When his request for a Sunrunner was refused he trapped and addicted one to drugs then slowly cut off the Sunrunner's supply of drugs when he ceased to be useful. He then attempted to use these drugs to enslave and rape another Sunrunner, Sioned, and when he fails burns his mistress Palila alive and banishes two of his children, one being a newborn. When we next hear about him he has cornered the market on the only medicine to a plague and only supplies it when enough of his rivals have died of it. When he enters a war with his greatest rival left alive, Rohan, he salts a battlefield after losing a battle out of spite. Petty and cruel, he schemes to the end.
- Ianthe, Rolestra's daughter, is just as vile as her father. She causes several of the events that lead to Palila being burned alive and her sisters being exiled simply because she didn't like them. When a plague hits the region, she throws anyone who gets sick off of the walls. She then concocts a plan with her father to kidnap, drug, and rape Rohan to make her son heir to the Desert. When his wife, Sioned, comes to rescue him she locks her in a lightless room and has her guards rape her for a month straight. When she finally lets them go, she releases them into the desert with only a little water and no food. A cruel and heartless woman, her Karmic Death being burned alive is completely deserved.
- Mireva is a sorceress from the mountains and the Bigger Bad of the series. Prior to the events of the story, she introduced drugs to Palila that kickstarted several of Rolestra's villainous acts. She helps Ianthe's sons escape the fire she dies in and trains them into her tools to try to conquer the world with. While orchestrating these plots she enslaves a princess with a mirror, forcing her to raise an army to try to invade Princemarch which would cause the death of hundreds of people at the very least. She kidnaps a princess named Ruala with latent sorcerer powers to use her as a power source and tries to blackmail another prince to do the same to him. As part of this plot she also impersonates a princess and rapes Rohan's son Pol, then has one of Ianthe's sons nearly rape the princess disguised as Pol. She also threatened to murder two children due to wanting revenge on a Sunrunner. A bitter and power-hungry woman, only her death is able to stop her vicious schemes.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Please add to the Drafts. Also, Rolestra should probably be double-indented too (should Mireva be first?).
Wild Child
Here's a re-write for the Joker in Batman: No Man's Land.
- Batman: No Man's Land: The Joker is determined to destroy what little order the desolated Gotham City has. He abducts several police officers and disguises them as himself, resulting in many being killed by their comrade, mistaking them for the Joker. He then kidnaps an entire hospital ward of newborn infants hostage, planning to kill them all to destroy the city's spirit. When Commissioner Gordon's second wife, Sarah Essen, tries to stop him, he shoots her in the head.
edited 25th May '16 8:36:06 AM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?
Planeswalker
Mireva's only introduced in the second book, while the others are introduced in the first, so I put her last on the list.
edited 25th May '16 8:38:30 AM by PhiSat
Oissu!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That looks fine. Please add it to the YMMV page.
@Clown face which Harley where you talking about? Because I know a bunch of Harley's in fiction.
This one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpu6yPAFHrs
That video is not for the faint of heart though.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I know we can't nominate real people, but if we could, I'd nominate whoever thought this was a good idea 
edited 25th May '16 9:08:08 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
...
...
...
It's like someone at Marvel found out about the DC Rebirth plans and thought, "Hey, I bet we can do even wilder Canon Defilement!"
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
.....yeah. This isn't destroying the very CONCEPT of the character Simon and Kirby created, NO SIR.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This might be worse. Don't know what else DC is planning, but the 3 Jokers thing, on second thought, could explain how he's so crazy (I still think it's dumb). But Cap as a HYDRA agent? Even if it's the not-as-Nazi-HYDRA of the more recent MCU, it's still ridiculous.
Wild Child
...Did the guys at DC and Marvel just grab the Idiot Ball? These are some of the dumbest decisions I've seen in comic book history.
Why so serious?
I bet it will be some stupid story where Cap is being framed or Red Skull is messing with his mind and this Cap is a Hydra agent will be resolved in 6 month and all this press is just up for the inevitable lame twist. Frankly I hate gimmicks like this, its trying to get readership through controversy rather then good writing. Frankly I think these characters have outgrown the medium that created them, with these bizarre retcons to Cap and Joker, that are completely pointless, the other media adaptions manage to tell more of a cohesive story then the comics do nowadays.
If they are actually stick with this though, it would make the Clone Saga look sane by comparison and that was total character assassination for Spidey.
At this point I wonder if Deadpool will be the most heroic character ever in the Marvel Universe, because everyone else is turned into a villain.
At least they haven't ruined some characters I like, Daredevil is still heroic and has been for most of his career (sure he went all Knight Templar six years ago but he was possessed by a demon).
edited 25th May '16 9:50:29 AM by Overlord
Sweet Jesus, I know comic book writers are iffy with consistent characterization, but did anyone down the line say that this may have been a bad bloody idea?
This is why I don't follow mainstream comic continuities anymore.
edited 25th May '16 9:47:20 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This is worse than Ultimate Marvel (which I haven't read, but I've heard...not-so-good things about it). For as bad as that might have been, and as unpopular as Mark Millar is, at least that was a completely different continuity.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Superior Captain America?
Captain America: Truth, justice and HAIL HYDRA
Ultimate Cap is a Jerkass, but he isn't some Nazi terrorist.
I think with comics, its best to take things with a grain of salt, I bet its just a lame fake out story.
I think you just have to stick with characters you like and hope they don't ruin with gimmicks, they haven't ruined DD yet (despite Shadowland turning him into a Knight Templar).
I still these characters are better used in other media.
Though if this sticks I don't know what you do with the Captain America heinious standard.
edited 25th May '16 9:56:32 AM by Overlord
Foreign Troper
I am somebody who passionately hates Captain America. The concept, the character, everything around him. And I still think this is a tremendously stupid idea, shoch value for the sake of it and a slap in the face for every fan.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
"A Marvel Editor Explains How Captain America Was a Hydra Agent All Along"
Because you're a fucking idiot who's trying to shock people with your absurd theories. There. I said it.
Should I go ahead and jot down who plans on effortposting villains on the CM discussion date page too? I noticed some users seem a bit eager to be the one to snag certain characters.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Alright, alright, now let's not get carried away Zoom. First of all, it hasn't even been a day since the finale, so let's stop this before someone spoils something.![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
Second of all, I'm fairly certain that 2 or 3 other tropers have been planning on proposing Zoom as well. So, before anyone proposes him, it needs to be worked out as to who is going to propose him.
edited 25th May '16 7:05:12 AM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.