During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, i assumed it was an Onion article or something at first. It's right up there with Spider-Man selling his marriage to the Devil in terms of weird and unnecessary.
Wild Child
Seriously, DC is really doing this? You Have GOT to Be Kidding Me!.
Why so serious?
Sigh. Least I'm getting my Wally back.
...
Like this won't be retconned away anyway within 10 years at most.
Though the funny thing is I half thought that Gotham might go in that direction.
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Who?
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Ah, him. Anyway, from here:
edited 23rd May '16 5:24:06 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
...Sigh...
◊.
So, Batman had three different arch-enemies, and he didn't know about this? Did these three Jokers know about each other? Ugh.
Why so serious?
This is extremely stupid I agree, but I don't think it means we have to re-evaluate any of The Joker's pre-Flashpoint entry.
I like to pretend that a writer of DC took a look at this thread, saw Joker listed under Special Cases, and made that decision so Joker could be even more of a special case in terms of being a CM.
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
I'm imagining the actual Joker (any of them) coming in here and laughing at all the chaos and madness being caused just by learning that there's three of him. "I shouldn't have stopped at three! Batman can incorporate, go international, and run through eleventeen Robins; why can't I have my own fun with some copycats?"
Well, what a bitchslap to one of my favorite villains. Hopefully we won't have to reevaluate anything. Comic books are always so fussy with continuity...
Doesn't even like this username
At least this Rebirth-related retcon doesn't seem as insane as Doctor Manhattan apparently being responsible for the New 52. Comics are weird...
Wild Child
Anyways, I added the Joker's re-write to the drafts. Now I just have to produce a write-up for Harley Quinn.
Why so serious?
There's a version of Harley Quinn who's a CM?
edited 23rd May '16 6:56:21 PM by Awesomekid42
Wild Child
We were discussing her a few pages ago...
Why so serious?
Is there anything that needs votes that isn't a DC character?
Maybe Hidden One? Also Albino and Sanchez from Banshee could maybe use some more votes, though I don't know if anyone's ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
d them much, I do know they got a lot of abstains.
edited 23rd May '16 9:12:46 PM by Monessi
Wild Child
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Albino and Sanchez.
I finished S2, and I'll give them both yeas.
Do you think Sharpe's even worth proposing? Or does his apparently sympathy for his hench-Nazi instantly DQ him? His virulent racism and kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach are pretty awful, but... rules is rules.
edited 24th May '16 12:38:41 AM by Monessi
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Xavius, you mean Watchmen!Manhattan? I didn't even know they shared a universe.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Apparently they do now.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well shit, I never realized Watchmen's also DC. Still though...
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
Should probably get this out of the way.
- Justice League: Gods and Monsters: Harley Quinn, as she appears in the Twisted short, stands in stark contrast to her mainstream portrayal. A psychopathic Serial Killer, Harley Quinn abducts civilians before mutilating and killing them, making "toys" out of their mangled corpses. When Batman rescues a teenage girl that Harley kidnapped, she tries to kill them both. During their fight, Batman comes across a makeshift "family" of the people Harley has murdered, including a young boy.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
To the Drafts please. By the way, do we wanna sort the DC Universe Animated Original Movies entries by release date, or keep them in alphabetical order?
Alright, then....from Boruto the Movie, the final chapter to date in the whole Naruto saga,...we have Momoshiki Otsutsuki, big bad of the film and possibly Bigger Bad of the whole franchise.
Who Is He?
Momoshiki is a member of the Otsutsuki clan, raised by his retainer Kinshiki. Centuries prior, Momoshiki became aware that another member of the clan, Kaguya, had gone to Earth, establishing herself as its god queen by eating the fruit of the Shinju, the Divine Tree. Learning that Momoshiki desired her chakra, Kaguya became paranoid and tyrannical, even enslaving humans to the god tree and turning them into plantlike soldiers known as Zetsus.
Kaguya was eventually defeated and sealed away by her twin sons, Hagoromo and Hamura. Momoshiki and Kinshiki would not arrive on earth until one thousand years later, when Kaguya had been defeated and sealed a final time and the world was at peace, with Momoshiki desiring nothing less than to steal all the world's chakra for himself.
What Has He Done?
Momoshiki arrives on earth and promptly sets about going after his targets, starting by defeating and draining Killer Bee, the Eight Tails' Jinchuuriki (Jinchuuriki being people who have a demon sealed within them). Killer Bee is defeated and discarded for dead in a lake. Momoshiki proceeds to have Kinshiki attempt to eliminate Sasuke Uchiha, who has learned of their existence.
Things come to a head at the ninja exams in the Hidden Leaf village. After Naruto, now the Hokage, catches his son Boruto cheating in the exams, Momoshiki appears and begins obliterating everything in sight, laughing insanely as he goes well out of his way to target civilians, noncombatants and even children. When the ninja rally, Momoshiki simply attempts to kill everything in his way before engaging Naruto in a personal fight. It's right here that Momoshiki ends up resorting to his nastiest trick: summoning a huge blast that places Naruto in the bind of sacrificing himself to contain it...or, given its power, allowing it to destroy the entire Hidden Leaf and possibly even the entire fire country. Naruto contains the blast, but, disabled, is captured by Momoshiki who intends to suck him dry of chakra and steal his Tailed Beast for its chakra (in the Narutoverse, a Jinchuuriki having their beast extracted, and being drained of chakra, are an automatic death sentence).
Boruto and the remaining Kages and Sasuke go into Momoshiki's dimension and find he is cultivating a new Shinju which he plans to feed with all of Kaguya's old chakra (which means just about every living thing on earth) to produce a new fruit. The Kages engage Momoshiki and Kinshiki, who attempt to kill them, as Sasuke and Boruto free Naruto. When they find themselves losing, Momoshiki demands that Kinshiki surrender his life to him and callously eats his loyal retainer to gain greater power without any hesitation. In his new state, he renews his efforts, and doesn't really have issues trying to kill Boruto either. Finally, a clever feint ends with him briefly knocked off balance, allowing Naruto, Sasuke and Boruto's final attack to blast him into space and obliterate him.
Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Qualities?
Unusually for a Naruto villain? None. Kinshiki is utterly loyal to Momoshiki and has no hesitation giving his boss his life, but Momoshiki does not return it whatsoever. He's given no Freudian Excuse (Whereas even Kaguya has been revealed to have had a major one), and no motivation besides his lust for power.
Heinous Standard?
Of the other major villains, he's comfortably above Pain, who also tried to destroy the Leaf (And ended up as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds who pulled a Heel–Face Turn)...his attempted bodycount even exceeds Obito and Madara's. Momoshiki can more comfortably be compared to Toneri Otsutsuki, Black Zetsu and Kaguya, so I'll go through the list:
Toneri, in a misguided attempt to fulfill his ancestors' guidance, attempted to drop the moon on earth. After getting his ass kicked and being forced to face his ancestor's spirit, he realized he was wrong about this and goes into exile on the moon. Black Zetsu manipulated centuries of warfare and was the driving force behind the original series to revive Kaguya, and Kaguya...well, Kaguya absorbs all the chakra from everyone caught up in the Jutsu Madara, the previous bigBad (This series went through chief villains faster than James Bond goes through girlfriends) cast when Black Zetsu backstabs him.
However, Momoshiki displays an unusual sadism with his focus on attacking civilians and even children. He was more than happy to annihilate the lead village and even the whole fire country to get what he wants, and his plan of stealing all of Kaguya's old chakra means everyone in the world is going to die to feed his god tree. It puts him square on Black Zetsu and Kaguya's level, and given his personal nastiness (and also his callous devouring of Kinshiki, when literally every other major villain has comrades or family they care for- Toneri was in love with Hinata, albeit in a creepy stalker-y way, Black Zetsu loved Kaguya, Kaguya had loved ones in the past, Obito and Madara both turned to darkness when they lost people they loved), ...Momoshiki stands out, and given he's weaker than Kaguya, he makes out well.
So, I'd say he ends up a keeper.
