During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
A little late, but I finished Orange Is The New Black and I remembered that Lightysnake brought up Vee earlier in the thread. I'm giving her a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
.
A total has-been.
For what it's worth, I'd say Gerrith Barrington is a . But everyone else in a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
edited 23rd Oct '14 11:18:56 AM by ANewMan
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So any entries for me to work my magic on?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
@ACW - I wrote an entry for the Headless Knight a page back.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lizzid people!
And there's also my writeup for Charles Cooper.
Hey! Here's my writeup for Agent Joe Meyers (misspelled it last time, sorry), from The Closer (episode Help Wanted).
Meyers is an immigration agent who exploits his position to fulfill penchant for rape and torture.
He singles out attractive immigrant nannies, subjects them to rape and torture, then threatens them with deportation if they report him. When it turns out that one of his victims is actually a legal citizen (meaning he couldn't have her deported) he beats her to death. When he's finally found out, he takes another nanny hostage. He makes it clear he knows he doesn't really have a way out, he just wants to take somebody with him.
Meyers is good at hiding his nature, but he's never shown to have any degree of remorse for what he does, nor is he given any sort of Freudian Excuse.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
How much do we see onscreen?
Barrington sounds nasty enough for me to justify a , but Niida, Valter, and Tubal-Caina each get a big . Riev is also leaning towards a , but I'd rather know what he does before giving a proper vote since I'm not really familiar with the character and his actions.
edited 23rd Oct '14 3:32:33 PM by FriedWarthog
on all those other candidates. on Cooper.
Okay, the chronology of this thread makes it hard to know who is getting downvoted or upvoted. People, do not make generic replies like "all of the above" or "everyone else" in a thread that's constantly seeing an influx of new CM discussions.
For my writeup on Dr. Ver, I see 2 , but also a recommendation to make a better writeup.
@ACW: Dagur, Dr. Ver, the Headless Knight, and Cooper of my memory should be looked at. Or... "magicified," or whatever you'd use for that.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Good enough.
edited 23rd Oct '14 3:08:25 PM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
"Tweaked."
I'm going to vote "no" on the Headless Knight, for the record. I'm also going to hold off on Barrington until someone actually does a full blown write-up.
Lizzid people!
How come? He killed four people.
@ACW: it's mostly the aftermath, admittedly, but many of the show's most memorable villains do much of their villiany offscreen; it's very good at driving home the horror of their actions even when we don't see them directly.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If we see the aftermath, that's probably enough.
The headless knight honestly sounds too comedic, and Keanan and Kel plays everything for laughs. I have to say no on this. I can't even assume this is remotely serious and played for horror.
Lizzid people!
Perhaps.
Can we bring just a bit more scrutiny to light-hearted kids' shows? Look, I can probably do an entry that sounds like Rita Revolta counts from Scooby Doo counts (I know Jacques counts, but he's a flat out serial killer played for direct horror in an unbelievably horrible manner).
It's going to do some damage to the trope if we just go "oh, he kills people, easy keep." Boy Meets World had a serial killer Halloween episode, even.
Not trying to argue against you, but you seem to have gotten two characters confused. Rita Repulsa is a Power Rangers villain; the Scooby villain is just "Revolta."
...and now I feel ashamed of knowing this.
I reaffirm my for Barrington. As I might have said earlier, I see him as analogous to Craster: we don't see (most of) the heinous actions themselves, but we do see the effects on the victims. And additionally, he does have one on-screen attempted murder.
@Austin DR
For the same reason that Lightysnake just listed. Lots of comedy shows have "serious" episodes, but given the overall context of the shows, the fact that the consequences rarely last, and that, more often then not the "serious" episode is itself played for comedy, no one is going to count.
And I still say I would like an effortpost on Barrington. Who is he and what does he do?
edited 23rd Oct '14 6:32:28 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
You know, I actually found Kenan and Kel: Two Heads Are Better Than One on Youtube. I'm going to watch it, and report back on how the Headless Knight is portrayed and if he's a keeper or not.
I think that the title already says it all, frankly.
edited 23rd Oct '14 9:28:35 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar