Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

Tokiomi was kinda meh as a character.

Also Don't misblam Nasu, He designed a few of the F/A servants -Karna and Seigfried- not all of them.

On the F/A The Three mainly contested/ ******ed about servants so far.

Jack really the only issue I can see justifiably is the overtly sexualized design of Jack -It's the freaking bikini bottom if she had a decent pair of pants the design wouldn't be half bad honestly, Her Vest is kinda badass-, any of the Lore changes, well If you ******ing about a cereal killer whose identity is unknown being a young girl with mental issues -even though most scholars agree something must have been wrong with Jack's brain- yet King Arthur is indeed a 15 year old girl -cause Saber stopped aging once she pulled the sword- is A okay with you... I think you just looking for something to complain about. honestly Jack's relationship with her master has a lot of potential depending on how they play it. Is Jack broken or damaged being the main question. Granted Jack does something badass I expect most will just drop the issue. Though her designer is the Novel's writer... hmmmm Unfortunate implications!

Franken Moe...Okay Even I can't defend the fact that the Lore changes to the monster is basically so they could have Yandere bait -Granted She's a beserker having much of a personality isn't really that big a deal, it's about kicking ass- Frankenstein is suppsoe to ask the question of "Who is the monster?" apparently the person who designed her and wrote her backstory went with The Doctor makers a Monster who can't understand! The cruelty of man destorying the monster's childlike innocence is what makes you feel for the monster. Here She just came out wrong from the get go. Granted She's a Beserker Her and BS Martcus are pretty much cannon fodder so I don't expect her to last long.

and finally Modred aka Red Saber-No Nero is Red Saber, Modred is *****/Slut Saber- Modred being a Saber clone was already in the original FSN -though Nasu did have to clarify that Modred was like Saber a girl and not a man... granted the Scene doesn't help with Saber calling Modred, Son and Modred calling Saber, Father. I think it's the sheer amount of IN YOUR FACE Modred has and her daddy issues. So you like Saber huh? Well Modred is Skankier, Ruder, Foulmouthed, will sleep with you at the drop of a hat and is pretty much the exact opposite of Saber except in looks. The Fact She gets so pissy at not ohking the Seig clone really seals my hope of her being something other then Saber with Daddy/inferiority issues.

Honestly I think Karna, Seig, and Vlad are gonna be the more interesting ones of the bunch and I'm seriously pissed they cut George for lame Achilles.

Karna's most likely a lancer due to them wanting the god killing spear.

Where are people getting the idea that Mordred is supposed to be a "slut"? Did I miss anything? :V

Also, Rin x Kotomine is not disturbing at all...

... Yeah, not disturbing! xD

Huh do you have any source on Mordred being the Really Gets Around type? I am genuinely curious because outside of her clothes nothing really points to her being sexually active. Infact from the prologue and some scattered info from various magazines that concerns her, its pretty much opposite really: She hates her femininity and goes into furious outburst whenever someone considers her a woman or behaves to her like to one.

Outside of that, I pretty much agree with most of that.

edited 30th Dec '12 4:38:48 PM by Drakovicz

So much anger, projection and plain making shit up in this post.

Frankenmoe and Jack are legit targets and I support as much anger, projection and plain making shit up against them as possible.

Yeah, I already went over this, but Mordred being sexually active would kind of go against her character.

This is good.◊

I rather meant the Mordred stuff.

edited 30th Dec '12 4:50:05 PM by Shlugo_the_great

Kotomine talked Shirou into getting a ridiculous hair style because he was being evil?

And made him undergo surgical operation to have the shape of his shin changed?

Clearly, Shirou is the one who was gender flipped here. I will keep with this until the story mentions him having a penis.

It would be pretty obvious to Tokiomi that Zouken hated Kariya, yes (although, ironically, he'd come to the right conclusion for the wrong reason, since Zouken was angry because Kariya abandoned him, not the magus life itself), but that doesn't change the fact that he knew about the worms. If he knew about the worms, then that means he knew that was how the Matou family trained magi, which means that at very least he knew that there was a chance Sakura would be thrown to the worms. Which is a fucking huge chance to take, really. However, it is also explicitly clear from the light novel that Tokiomi really did care about Sakura, and felt he was doing the best for her.

In the end, it's mainly a case of Blue-and-Orange Morality, I think. Tokiomi cares about Sakura, yes, but his primary interest is in her development as a magus, and her ability to live as a normal human is entirely secondary. Even with Rin, it's pretty clear that her training is not particularly enjoyable, and rather dangerous, and he's actively pushing her down that route. In particular, she says that the magic crest causes her immense pain, to the point that she sometimes wants to cut her arm off. To him, it actually genuinely is worth being thrown into a pit of penis worms and raped from the age of four if you get to be a magus as a result, particularly since he seems to believe the alternative is to end up as an Association experimental subject. Where he really screwed up (in his own mind, at least) is in assuming that Zouken would treat her much like he treats Rin, as an heir to train and raise properly, rather than as a tool to use to achieve immortality.

That is why he and Kariya couldn't communicate properly, because to Kariya the reason Sakura was being raped by penis worms was not relevant, whereas to Tokiomi is was the most important thing. As far as Kariya was concerned, anyone who lets their child be raped by penis worms is a monster, and thus there is no point in talking to him. If he'd pointed out that Sakura was not being trained as the heir he could possibly have gotten through to Tokiomi, but he never did because to Kariya that didn't matter.

edited 30th Dec '12 5:08:01 PM by Cherry_Lover

I can hardly blame Kariya for thinking this... like, at all. Everyone who willingly lets their daughter be raped by penisworms is a bad person to me. Blue-and-Orange Morality be damned.

Hmm, yeah, I can see that. I don't think Tokiomi thought it was so much worm rape as having worms live inside your body at most. Still horribly disgusting and awful but at least it makes sense in some ways.

... And it took just how long before you guys finally arrived at the conclusion that I had been trying to get across over the past couple of pages? No, let me guess: You were thinking "It's Marq, therefore he must be making stuff out of his ass", right?^note For those curious, Arha already once used that as justification to discredit my arguments before. Sheesh, just because I once or twice made signficant mistakes in the arguments that I put forth in a debate...

edited 30th Dec '12 5:38:30 PM by MarqFJA

Cherry Lover just said it way better, Marq. It's okay.

So doing prolonged, boredom-risking posts trumps being concise and to the point? Gee, that's nice.

And here I was thinking that I should avoid spoon-feeding you everything so that I don't insult your intelligence. (That's a point that had been hammered to me by my upbringing, but one which I have yet to master how to apply.)

Maybe I'm just making fun of you again, Marq. You never know with me~

This may be extremely stupid, but where did the "Mordred is a slut" idea come from? I noticed someone on the F/A YMMV page even labeled her a Scrappy, citing that as their reason.

Also, is it wrong that I am vaguely optimistic about Frankenmoe? As a Berserker, I don't think she will be able to show any of her yandereness, and....OK confession time, I do like her design.

I like her design a lot, actually... it's just that I can't see it as Frankenstein. Like, at all.

Also, War Griff (the first poster on this page) posted Mordred's The Scrappy entry. Go figure. XD

That's fair. It isn't really Frankensteiny. I think at most, she has the neck stitches.

Well that explains that. So it's just this one guy then?

I want to know where he got the idea from though. If it's just her outfit, I am going to be disappointed.

edited 30th Dec '12 5:57:45 PM by Otherarrow

I don't know. I haven't seen anything of Slut!Mordred on Beast's Lair either.

Why is she wearing that outfit anyway? I wouldn't be surprised if her Master forced her to wear it to troll her or something.

Kay: Well, you can't really blame him, no, which is why I sympathise with him throughout Zero.

Although, he should at least understand how magi think somewhat, and he is also unable to see that, as much as he doesn't like it, Sakura and Rin are simply not ordinary children. As nice as it would be to treat them as such (even Tokiomi laments he cannot allow them to make up their own minds), that is simply not possible due to the nature of the world in which they live. Tokiomi fails to understand that they are still people, who need a family etc., but Kariya doesn't recognise that they are also magi, and you cannot ignore that.

Arha: It's not clear what exactly Tokiomi knew, but even if he had known about the rape, I could see him writing it off as an unfortunate but necessary part of the training. I doubt he would be OK with Zouken just outright torturing her, though....

I tend to be a little easier on Kariya, since the worms probably didn't help his thinking and seeing Sakura in pain was also pretty... bad.

But yes, it would have been nice if he had tried to reason with Tokiomi some more.