Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

There's a difference in the two stories. Frankenstein's monster was rejected by his creator and repeatedly tried to contact him or blend into society before he broke down. Frankenmoe just didn't earn her creator's love. Did the bit about getting shot for saving a little girl and the like make it into Frankenmoe's story? I kinda doubt it.

Need I remind you guys that we're talking about what should be clearly either an abridged or a prototypical version of the character's backstory — one that probably assumes we fill in the blanks using the original story where it doesn't flagrantly conflict with the new one's additions/changes? It's not like Arturia's backstory was all revealed to us in one go; we didn't know about the whole mess with Lancelot, Mordred, and the civil war (the details, that is) until way later, when Fate Zero and supplemental materials came out.

edited 30th Dec '12 2:59:02 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I have nothing to contribute to this pointless discussion, so here's some Nero x Tokiomi (I know the drawing looks weird):

Because.

edited 30th Dec '12 2:58:41 PM by kay4today

But in this version she wants the love of her creator, which makes her more focused on his sole approval. It's reasonable to assume that she never saved that little girl because she wouldn't have tried to do something to fit in with people other than Doctor Frankenstein.

^ Noooo! I like both characters but that's awful!

edited 30th Dec '12 2:58:39 PM by Arha

I need to find more pics of crack ships so I can terrorize show them to you!

The best news is that goggling Kotomine is an instant ticket to Gilmine yaoi. She will terrorize us for a looooooooooong time.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

I would've supported Nero x Tokiomi if I didn't know that the latter was a douche (giving Sakura to Zouken while knowing of the worm-rape nature of the Matou's magic lineage).

There is nothing in her backstory saying that she only wanted his approval, only that it was her main goal.

And BTW, the Roaring Rampage of Revenge came well after she started her initial pursuit of him:

An artificial lifeform created by the researcher Frankenstein; she was rejected by her creator when she professed a love for him. Fearful of her interests, her creator dismembered her and escaped to his birthplace in an Alpine village outside Geneva. Reassembling herself and tracking him on instinct, she began to recognize over time that though she was kind in nature, she was also an existence of cursed monstrosity. The understanding of the reasoning behind her creator's rejection drove her to anger and despair, and she took the lives of his family members, pursuing him across Europe in the aftermath.

In other words, the goal of her pursuit changed over time.

edited 30th Dec '12 3:03:43 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I wasn't about to google that, but thanks for telling me!

Do we know that Tokiomi knew? :V

Doublepost, because honor shipping!

Chivalry level: Over 9000!

They're not married. They can't be honorable since they're both dirty adulterers.

Yes. He knew that it involved horrible, totally unwholesome stuff even by Magus standards, though probably not the how (i.e. submerging in a "bath" of penisworms to be raped over and over through every possible orifice).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I can't recall him mentioning that.

But their romance is totally innocent!

We can be sure of that since Lancer broke his spear.

edited 30th Dec '12 3:33:16 PM by Shlugo_the_great

No! Adultery! They are both to be executed.

Waaaaaaaaait a minute!

To quote wikipedia:

This clearly doesn't apply.

Saber is married to Guinevere. Lancer is married to that chick who brainwashed and raped him. Clearly, if they are as close as those pictures indicate it must be an adulterous relationship.

Ha! But both of them are long dead by the time those two meet!

Move along people, nothing un-chivalrous here.

edited 30th Dec '12 3:47:56 PM by Shlugo_the_great

But Guinevere and that woman are probably low ranking Heroic Spirits as well. They're no more dead than Lancer himself.

Oh, and I guess this makes Saber a necrophiliac.

edited 30th Dec '12 3:48:32 PM by Arha

It only says "until the death do us part..." nothing about being applicable again upon resurrection.

Wait, why am I arguing this again? I don't even care for the paring!

edited 30th Dec '12 3:51:27 PM by Shlugo_the_great

He was not surprised by post-wormplantation Kariya's deformed appearance, which was a direct result of the Matou lineage; additionally, Kirei managed to figure out that Zouken was somehow "an abomination of the highest order" on sight, even if he didn't know how or why, and Kirei is a priest of the Holy Church (Magic Circuits notwithstanding), not a properly-trained Magus like Tokiomi. That means that Tokiomi should have had a hint of the horrors that awaited Sakura.

And I personally didn't know about it until it was brought up here a long while ago. I also know of at least one fanfiction story whose writer bothered to research the issue thoroughly, discovered this fact, and promptly invoked Death of the Author because his plot hinged on Tokiomi not being that much of a bastard (i.e. he need him having done that decision due to a "maybe it would be difficult, creepy and hellish, but surely it wouldn't involve horrible atrocities, right?" moment).

edited 30th Dec '12 3:53:23 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Just because Zouken did something freaky to someone he would hate doesn't mean Tokiomi knows he would do that to his actual successor. What would be the point of doing that to your successor?

Also, you're thinking of Christian weddings Shlugo.

edited 30th Dec '12 3:58:18 PM by Arha

Putting aside that you only attacked one point in my multi-point argument... Did Tokiomi know that Zouken hated Kariya in the first place?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Your other points were... well, let's just say stupid. Kotomine fights monsters like Zouken for a living so why do you think he would recognize exactly what Zouken is doing?

Edit: Misread. Of course Tokiomi would know that.

edited 30th Dec '12 4:18:09 PM by Arha

It's pretty obvious that Tokiomi knew Zouken hated Kariya, since Kariya basically said "Screw you" to the Matou lineage.