Kyon: Big Damn Hero

This is where I have to express my disagreement. What you are pointing out is not a change in perspective, but rather, the avoidance of using pronouns. In Japanese, unlike English, if it can be easily assumed what a subject/object is, it is omitted in the sentence (i.e. "This is my book. That is my book, too." becomes "Sono wa watashi no hon desu. Kono mo watashi no desu"; because of how particles are used in Japanese, if you omit the object, the related articles still remain). However, Japanese has a few ways to say you; "anata" is considered too polite for conversation between friends, girls often use one's name or nickname, and boys replace "anata" with "omae."

Essentially, tl;dr is that Durandal, like the really good subbers and dubbers, do not localize after translating the neccessary. For example, how some subs use anpan in Clannad instead of red bean-paste bread. It eliminates a lot of the clutter involved in translating certain Japanese terms and makes the flow of conversation easier.

See also: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090524151127AAxdL2V

edited 10th Apr '13 7:15:16 PM by Jbstormburst

"like the really good subbers and dubbers"

Based on that statement alone I can't really agree with you, because overly-literal translations just don't sound good to me in spoken English.

Edit: I guess I should clarify 'cause there's multiple layers here. To me things like keeping the original names for food are good, but things like using third-person where an English-speaking person would use second-person or leaving direct translations unaltered (which to me makes dialogue sound really stiff and awkward, the Yugioh Uncut dub is my go-to example of this) are not so good. Durandall's dialogue generally sounds good, but occasionally reads like an overly literal fansub. It seems to vary. (Edit2: Actually, Sasaki's dialogue specifically tends to seem really stiff to me pretty much every time she appears, but I think that's deliberate so I can't really gripe about it. )

edited 10th Apr '13 7:54:52 PM by Eamil

Also, sorry if I seem to be turning into Arbitrary Argument-Starting Man. I'm just bored and stirring up discussion that's hopefully at least mildly interesting to anyone but me.

I don't mind it.

To add, don't get me wrong, I think the lot of them do love each other, or love Kyon enough and are growing to love each other as a family more than anything, but for teenagers this is probably pretty heavy stuff. Since there is that aforementioned cultural difference as well that could be a weighty factor in and of itself.

Again, it's probably something that's being saved for a special occasion.

EDIT: I found this group shot.◊ Thought people might like it.

edited 10th Apr '13 8:32:15 PM by Grahf

Cute. And I think I spotted five or six different Haruhis.

Edit: Wait, seven!

edited 10th Apr '13 11:34:58 PM by Eamil

I believe the official count is eight, unless Yasumi is someone else altogether.

I kinda treat her as a separate character regardless, plus IIRC there's people here that haven't read novels 10/11 so they don't know what you're hinting at.

I tend to enjoy the Japanese language quirks, since part of my appreciation of manga/anime/et c. is the window into Japanese culture; I view fanfiction that's written with such in place through a bit of a Watsonian, "translation from the original" lens. It can be done badly, of course! But it's all akin to the old debate over literal versus cultural translation of foreign texts, and what your preferences and expectations are. Going into reading a fic based on a Japanese property, I expect such fillips, so it's Americanisms that tend to throw me.

(For what it's worth I prefer translations to be mostly literal, with footnotes, but believe that straightforwardly understandable cultural translations are probably better in an absolute sense. ("Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.") A good book on the topic of translation (and much else!) is Le Ton Beau de Marot, by Douglas Hofstadter.)

Good points. I think part of the problem is the fact that I'm used to dubs, and with subs I have tone of voice to make up for dialogue that might otherwise seem stiff so I tend not to think about it unless the subs are too literal. (I can't watch Haruhi subbed, though - for some reason Japanese Kyon's deadpan snark doesn't translate into actually sounding like snark to me.) I'm not used to dealing with it in literature, and while I was willing to overlook it when it was just a nagging feeling that some dialogue was written stiffly, once I was able to pin a reason to that it stuck out more.

Going off on a tangent, for me whether Japanese Honorifics should be used in dubs is situational, partly because it feels more appropriate in some series than in others (in a show not actually set in Japan they should probably be left out IMO) and partly depending on whether the voice actors can make them sound natural. I think anyone who's seen FLCL dubbed will agree it just works there, but in the Lucky Star dub, one I totally expected Japanese Honorifics to sound appropriate, they just sound off to me. (In BDH since it's set in Japan and there's no voice acting to ruin the way they're said I don't really care. )

edited 11th Apr '13 11:07:56 AM by Eamil

Really? Lucky Star is one of the anime where hearing the honorifics in the English dub actually really works for me. Interesting how subjective a lot of this can get.

They just didn't sound natural to me the way they were voiced. I mean, it wasn't terrible, but I had other issues with that dub too that I won't get into, so that just made it worse.

I wonder why Bandai kept honorifics in the Lucky Star dub but left them out in the Haruhi dub, even though Haruhi is the one that makes them a subtle plot point with Haruhi being the only one Kyon doesn't use honorifics with.

edited 12th Apr '13 5:59:15 PM by Eamil

New chapter here.

Sweet!

...dang it, Specular. You beat me to the announcement of the new chapter, kitsu.

Does the fact that Haruhi and Tsuruya both said that Sasaki's "ruined for marriage" and that Kyon "should take care of her" count as a Shout-Out to when Mikuru asked the same thing for herself to Kyon?

edited 12th Apr '13 7:30:03 PM by MadKitsu

PDF version of the current edition (as of Apr 13th, Chapter 60 a.k.a. Re-4) of the story (5.30 MB, 2038 pages, 597688 + 6924 words).

@Mad Kitsu:

I think it counts as a Continuity Nod in this case.

Every time this fic updates, I feel like Tsuruya when I read it - everything makes me laugh.

Poor Ooishi, he was just negative 20 years away from retirement...

Good chapter. Major plot points checked off for this arc. I can't recall if this has been touched on, but is the rest of the Beta Harem other than Rika aware of the supernatural world at all? Mion is obviously not aware of Hanyuu, and we can assume at least Rena also is not, if not Satoko and Keiichi also. Matsuri hasn't given any indication of being able to see her, either. Furthermore, are they aware of the previous worlds of Higurashi at all? I'm not too familiar with the pseudo-canon Brian is using, having only read the 8 primary arcs, and a few of the amusing OV As. (The pool episode comes to mind.) There are, of course, allowed to be mysteries which are not solved; Satoshi's recovery, for instance, but Rika does seem to be the only one in all the loops, until now with Kyon's awareness of the Beta Harem. Opinions? (For the record, I see the major groups of secrets being: The main Harem, the Beta Harem, the Higurashi past/Hanyuu, and the SOS brigade members' identities.)

In a complete jump in topic, anyone have any guesses on the probability of Asakura being added to the harem? (If she eventually gets non-chibi-fied, of course)

Totally agree.

edited 13th Apr '13 12:00:29 AM by HarryBCDresden

Sasaki joins the party harem! *insert Final Fantasy-like 'Join Party' fanfare here*

The Higurashi cast might have been partly aware of what happened, but not the true extent. They also seem comfortable enough trusting Rika's "intuition" and probably know there's more to her than she's letting on, but at the same time they don't really mind either.

As for Asakura joining the harem, I dunno, I personally see it as a bit of a stretch. Seems more likely that if she gets her old body back she'd be the Cool Big Sister for Nonoko, as well as a guardian for her in the literal sense. I'd hate to be someone who threatens that kid when a full-powered, full-bodied Ryoko is around to defend her "Magical Radiant Nonoko".

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that this chapter confirms that Kyon's first name is Kyousuke. "Kyon himself was given a wreath specifically to lay on the stone commemorating a doctor who shared his own first name — the same doctor that had evidently delivered him. I know it's not really much of a surprise at this point, but this is the first 100% confirmation we've got I think.

Five posts, no need for spoiler tags.

Just started reading the new chapter.

Heh, "Blind spot the size of Hokkaido" indeed. <reads a little more>

!!!

... Excuse... Me... For a few... minutes. <erupts into unceasing, roaring laughter>

... <finally stops laughing to read more> What?! OMG, Sasaki thought... Oh, my ribs!

Ah, can someone explain to me what Kyouko meant by "not able to be as fortunate as me"?

My, oh my. That's an interesting "how Kyon got his nickname" story. And I am loving Haruhi's little theory.

Yeesh, someone should set up a Kissing Olympics tournament so that Kyon could at least get a few gold medals!

@Mad Kitsu, RE Mikuru: Refresh my memory, please. I don't seem to remember that off-hand.

Wait, there was a "Kyousuke" in Higurashi?

edited 13th Apr '13 1:18:23 PM by MarqFJA

Kyousuke was Doctor Irie's first name.

Yeah, that was hilarious.

As in, Sasaki can't be with the person she loves the way Kyouko is.

Weird thought —

That knock on the head from the bell that little Kyousuke took caused some minor brain damage — precicely to whatever locus that mind-readers use to gain access. And this is why he is invisible to espers, including CS! Haruhi — as Koizumi said, he "simply isn't there."

Kindle version updated. I'm thinking about getting rid of the disclaimers at the start of every chapter and just leaving the most recent version of the disclaimer at the start of chapter 1.

Also, the story of Kyon's nickname is now my headcanon for canon!Kyon.

edited 13th Apr '13 2:51:21 PM by Eamil

@Eamil: Just for clarity's sake, my first fit of laughter was at Kyon and Sasaki's kissing scene. Yeah, sure you two, it's all just a crazy dream that you're having while asleep/fainted.

That too.