Dragon Age

Gaider was on a panel about diversity and inclusivity in games along with a few others.

Maybe it's just because I never took Sten, but damn it everything about the Qunari makes me hate them more and more.

Like seriously- they somehow manage to be worse than the Seanchan.

What game are you playing? Because I couldn't help but constantly agree with the Arishok in DA 2. He was right about most things.

Dragon Age 2- and wow. Completely opposite reaction.

Everything the Arishok says makes me want to punch him in his face.

I mean this is a group that forces conversion through a variety of horrific methods- my favorite being ritualistic lobotomy to turn resisters into pliant dumb labor, who intentionally gives chemical weapons to thieves in place of gunpowder knowing the amount of death and destruction it will cause, use their insane totalitarian philosophy as an excuse to justify mass slaughter in the streets and murder.

And the Arishok just sits around smug bastard for the entire game refusing to ask for help about the thing that brought him to Kirkwall or make peace with the "unworthy" non-Qunari. If he had just been honest about what was at stake he probably could have wrapped the whole deal up in weeks tops- instead he sits around for years and starts a slaughter out of pride and arrogance.

edited 25th Apr '15 12:10:05 AM by LMage

Sten is my favorite character in Origins... but the Qun is pretty messed up. Both the the Qunari and the Dalish with their demon worship need to be converted to the Andrastean faith ASAP.

But you should definitely take Sten at least once. once. He's great.

edited 25th Apr '15 12:29:36 AM by Millardkillmoore

The Qunari did absolutely nothing in Kirkwall yet nutters like Petrice and the Templar and their followers still lined up to hate them.

A greedy dwarf and an insane elf do their best to steal gunpowder and instead get poison.

The Qunari didn't do anything. They merely existed and the inherent instability and evil of the people in the city ensured that violence and death was the result.

They let the gas be stolen so they could find out who was trying to attack them.

I think the best example of the Arishok vs. Kirkwall is seen when Aveline has you march up to the Qunari Compound and is all like "hand over those converts because they bad!" And said converts step forward to point out that Aveline's guard was raping women and nobody in said guard did anything about it.

That is not pride or arrogance talking. The man HATES the city and for good reason. All he wants is to pack up and go home and leave this cesspool to fester in its own corruption.

But "there is no rescue from duty to the Qun."

the Andrastian faith is the worst in all of Thedas.

edited 25th Apr '15 12:22:27 AM by Nikkolas

Agreeing with every thing in that post right there.

Especialy about Andrate, the Qun is preferable to that shit, wish there had been a tear down the chantry option in DA:I. :/

edited 25th Apr '15 1:01:04 AM by Imca

Oh come on. When a -Templar- thinks that the way you treat your mages is crossing the line you realllly need to re-evaluate your religion.

I mean, the Chantry sucks a lot- but they don't do to their mages what the Qunari do. They also don't lobotomize and enslave others under the aegis of "converting" them.

As to the Arishok- if he really wanted to leave Kirkwall he would have gotten off his high horse and asked for help in locating his damned book. It's not like he was some innocent daisy victimized by this evil humans- he planned his coup long in advance and with malicious afterthought, he expressed the desire from the very beginning to force the Qun on Kirkwall and insisted they should be "grateful". The elves where just an excuse to let him do what he had been craving to do for years and try and violently conquer a city and convert it.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:13:51 AM by LMage

And its still better then some of the options that could be done and for good reason, mages do not need more freedom.

x3,x4

Andraste is love. Andraste is life.

If you gain his respect you learn that it's worse: he didn't even really care about converting Kirkwall. He was deliberately trying to get himself and all of his people killed so that he wouldn't have to deal with being stuck anymore.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:18:50 AM by Millardkillmoore

Well, there we will have to completely agree to disagree I'm afraid. (I'm as pro-mage as it gets.)

Still though, no sentient creature ever deserves the brutality the Qunari force on their mages- talking Circle and T Emplars is one thing, but when even extremist templars think it's going to far to treat mages a certain way: again, re evaluate your ENTIRE religion.

That is so incredibly messed up.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:20:35 AM by LMage

... Its kirkwall, do you blame him.

Edit: Qunari Mages, The chantry is why they even have them in the first place, before that they were being more humane and a bit smarter in just killing them...

edited 25th Apr '15 1:21:51 AM by Imca

When I first played Dragon Age 2 I couldn't remember the Arishock's name, so when talking about the game with other people I called him "fantasy ISIS". That basically sums up how I feel about Qunari.

Seriously, I've got nothing against the Qun, but their "we can't accept the existence of different lifestyles" has to end right now, or they have to end right now. Talking with Iron Bull during Inquisition proves that some of them do realize their Qun is just one way to live, with its good sides and its bad sides, after all.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:23:42 AM by Cozzer

"we can't accept the existence of different lifestyles"

Also known as the Chantry itself. :/

Kirkwall isn't that bad of a place- it's systematically going insane because of unresolved massive internal pressures and social breakdown from institutionalized cruelty VS rule of law, but it's not that bad of a place.

x3

Are you....seriously advocate the outright murder of innocent people whose only crime is existing?

edited 25th Apr '15 1:23:55 AM by LMage

Oh, come on, that's just strawmanning. There are a lot of different factions inside the Chantry, and you can make the more progressive ones win. Just like there are probably many different factions inside the Qun, and if the more progressive ones win it's all good for everyone.

Actually, a game set in Qunari lands where you get to see them from the inside and you can push for more isolationism, more aggressiveness or more not-being-dicksness would be pretty cool. It probably won't happen, though.

Still, even ignoring the whole "everybody has to be like us" thing, I personally find the basics of Qun phylosophy scary as fuck. I'm pretty big on sensible individualism.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:29:21 AM by Cozzer

The needs of many outweigh the needs of the few, and mages are walking weapons of mass destruction, who are ticking time-bombs counting down to randomly slaughtering hundreds of innocent people by either purposely or through incompetence making a contract with a deamon.

Or just going crazy and doing it on there own, were plenty of them too.

So, the options are pretty much that or the circle, they need to be controlled.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:28:31 AM by Imca

Yeah well, there is a difference between controlling someone by putting him into a tower and by sewing his eyes shut. If you don't appreciate that, remind me never to invite you to visit a tower. :P

edited 25th Apr '15 1:31:03 AM by Cozzer

No I do understand that, and agree with it...

Like I said, death was the more humane option. ._.;

Don't forget a policy of killing any mage who has ever spent any time whatsoever away from his/her Arvaarad.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:35:45 AM by Millardkillmoore

Because killing people for existing has always gone well.

There is nothing that it can be compared to L.

There has never been an inherently dangerous subset of sentient beings in history, and hopefully for every one's sanity there never will be.

I once again argue with the qunari treatment that would be preferable, over much quicker at least. :/

edited 25th Apr '15 1:37:33 AM by Imca

Jesus fuck. It's one thing to be pro-Circle, even pro-Sarebas, but you really thinking killing mages is the only good option?

So, what, the instant someone shows signs of magic, fuck whatever else they've done, string em up and let em rot? Even if they were the kindest soul to ever exist, screw it, they have magic! Can't let that get out.

There are plenty of ways to teach mages to control their power. There are plenty of ways to avoid murdering people for something that isn't even their fault.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:38:34 AM by Mukora

Don't take my point the wrong way.

I am pro-circle, not pro mage execution.

Unless your treating them like the qunari are, and then its a damn mercy kill.

What ever happened to the dwarfs any way? Why cant they magic yet have not been made tranquil? Is it something that can be coppied and repeated? If so THAT is what I would support.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:39:41 AM by Imca

Also, don't forget curative magic. And the myriad other ways magic can be used in a constructive way (which we don't see because come on, protagonists have fireballs, but just think about it for a minute)

If you're really looking for the "needs of the many" you don't just throw away opportunities from the windows because they have risks. A society where the mage problem has been solved in a remotely sensible way would probably be much better than one without any magic whatsoever.

For example, when a random dragon attacks your village I think you'd appreciate having a few mage friends.

EDIT: Oh, ok. Sorry, your last post really made it seem like you advocated killing every mage ever. About Qunari mages... eh. It's one of these situations where things are so shitty that there are no right choices, so whatever.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:43:37 AM by Cozzer