Idea Chef
Edited by QPCwB on Apr 20th 2024 at 12:45:42 PM
You gonna eat that?
crazed fangirl hunts down theories (she/they)
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to both suggestions. Neither of them match the trope's description.
To be a Master
The trope might need to be renamed because I noticed someone replaced King Magnifico's entry with Jessie from Toy Story 2 despite the fact that Jessie only has a sad backstory and a happy ending while Magnifico's story is how he went from a benevolent king to a wicked tyrant imprisoned by a crystal.
Tragic doesn't mean "Sadness" in a classical sense and Hero doesn't have to just apply to "Good Guys"
crazed fangirl hunts down theories (she/they)
Yeah, we might need to TRS this.
I'm just a psycho, babe! Come and go out my mind. I didn't lose it, babe! There wasn't much to find.
I wonder what photo makes a good description? It should be compared to Tragic Villain.
Edited by AlexHoskins on Apr 20th 2024 at 11:08:25 AM
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To be a Master
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
A good image would be seeing how a hero ends up dying because of their Fatal Flaw. A before and after.
Unfortunately, the 50 limit at Trope Repair Shop has been reached, so I can't make a thread for it.
However, I did post it on discussion page here
.
The biggest issue I have with Tragic Hero and Tragic Villain is that people aren't aware of the classical meanings for these terms.
Tragic in Greek sense is Downfall. Hero in Greek sense is Protagonist. This is why Macbeth is considered a Tragic Hero despite the fact he's a villain with very little redeeming qualities by the end of the play. He's the protagonist that went from good to evil because of his Fatal Flaw. That's what Tragic Hero is supposed to mean.
But then you have Tragic Villain, which uses the modern meanings of the words. Tragic as in "Something bad out of the person's control" happens to them, and Villain in that they become a villain as a result of this tragic event. But for someone who knows tragedy in a Greek sense, the name comes across as a villainous version of Tragic Hero, not terrible event forcibly made them into a villain.
Edited by Shadao on Apr 20th 2024 at 11:14:30 AM
You have a point. We could call it Downfall Protagonist.
Edited by AlexHoskins on Apr 20th 2024 at 11:55:46 AM
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Stark Holmes
Bumping for a consensus.
Discombobulate.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I don't like any of the images.
The other discussion is for Trope Talk.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
crazed fangirl hunts down theories (she/they)
Can't tell what is going on. I think this needs to be BUPKIS.
I can tell what's going on but wouldn't it spoil the work?
It's not clear to me either.
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to us.
Yeah, I can't tell what's going on there either. I also agree to maybe just BUPKIS.
Usagi's done something stupid again (she/her)
BUPKIS until the TRS is done at least
So I can't think of anything right now... meh.
None of the suggestions work. I agree.
The Lady of House Solari
I agree on leaving it BUPKIS
I belong to neither Heaven nor Hell. I am a woman self-possessed.
Clock is set, other thoughts?
Hi! :3
Very Spooky
Not sure about BUPKIS, but just close if nobody has any other ideas.
back lol
I've got a couple of ideas involving classical Greek heroes, I'll have them up later today. Namely Jason with regards to Medea, and Theseus with either his father or Ariane.
Ok, following Shadao's description, here's a couple for Theseus and Ariadne. I had to scrap the Jason and Medea idea because there's just nothing I could find showing him shmoozing up to princes Glauce for the power and/or spurning Medea.
This is from the following ebook "Theseus and the Minotaur
Retold by H. Q. Mitchell - Marileni Malkogianni". For clarity, I added the captions in panels 2 and 4.
23.1
This is a collage of 3 different art pieces. Panel 1
is "Ariadne and Theseus" by Pelagio Palagi. Panel 2 is "Ariadne abandoned by Theseus", 1778, by Angelica Kauffman RA (1741 - 1807). Panel 3
◊ is "Death of Aegeus", and is uncredited. I've tried to find the source but none of my usual reverse image search engines lead to anything. I can try swapping it with something else, but this was one of the better classical examples.
23.2
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
I suppose 23.1 could work, but if it’s too wordy, maybe no pic for now.
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
To be a Master
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
23.1
I have misread the concept of the trope as “heroes with very tragic backstories.” It is actually about heroes who are tragically doomed by their Fatal Flaws. So I mistakenly had suggested this photo of Daredevil.