Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Jogo
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Miras, Eric Wilson, Kogorr and Palpatine
Edit: ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Veracruz
Edited by jlvs200s on Mar 26th 2024 at 7:38:16 PM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
RIP Toriyama
I've been reminiscing on Burn Notice lately, and got reminded of this dude who I'm surprised hasn't been talked:
What's the work?
Burn Notice: The Fall of Sam Axe is a prequel movie to the series itself, following side character Sam Axe, an arrogant, kind of goofy, but nonetheless badass Navy Seal Commander played by Bruce Campbell. In this movie, Sam is punished for sleeping with a superior officer's wide by being sent to Colombia to investigate reports of a terrorist group called "Espada Ardiente" and help local militia deal with them. Things are anything but so simple, however...
Who is Veracruz? What has he done?
- Played by Pedro Pascal, Commandante Veracruz is the main baddie of the film, serving on behalf of Governor Perez. Veracruz and Perez have long used their military and government positions to mask the fact that they are drug traffickers, and recently, they've desired to carve a path through nearby mountains for a trafficking path, but the local farmers refuse to leave their land. So, tasked by Perez to handle the situation, Veracruz's plan is to massacre the farmers and claim the land for himself; he murdered teenager Beatriz's journalist father for investigating the situation, and the girl has now gone into hiding with the farmers to avoid being killed herself.
- The farmers fight back against the crooked military, becoming known as "Espada Ardiente". Veracruz frames the group as terrorists by destroying convoys and threatening civilians under the guide of their banner, and he now has a final plan to solidify the Frame-Up and convince the U.S. Military to help him wipe out the farmers: Veracruz is going to slaughter a hospital clinic full of sick patients young and old, as well as the two charity workers heading it up, then frame it on the farmers.
- When Sam learns the truth and begins working to thwart the villains—in one instance using a chainsaw and proclaiming how groovy it is—Veracruz shows himself to be a tremendously Bad Boss who shoots one of his minions dead for a minor slip-up in watch duty, then tosses another one off a cliff for no reason at all—Veracruz is just angry at Sam's disruptions.
- Finally cornering the farmers, hospital patients/workers and a few government operatives dragged into the fray, Veracruz violently beats Sam for fun and then opens fire on the building that everyone is inside, trying to force Sam to live long enough to see them all slain; but Sam called in reinforcements in time, and the US military shows up to capture Veracruz, Perez and all their forces. Veracruz makes one last attempt to stab Sam out of spite, but Sam knocks him unconscious and saves the day.
Mitigating features?
Not a one, just greedy, crooked and sadistic.
Heinousness?
The show has a high standard with routine terrorists for villains and the two current CMs do such things as trying to bomb a plane/hotel, killing various innocents and targeting the loved ones of our leads.
But Veracruz is bad enough for a small-time, one-shot militia leader, as his whole plan revolves around killing an entire farming group (about 12 people in all) and slaughtering a hospital/clinic that includes multiple elderly people and a Malaria-ridden child which is just dickish, and along the way he murders two of his henchmen, killed the teenaged Beatriz's father and tries for her as well, then subjects Sam to brutal beating and an attempt to force him to watch as the farmers, patients, Beatriz, 2 government agents, and 2 charity workers (one of which is Sam's Love Interest) are all mowed down. Would Hurt a Child, Bad Boss, You Killed My Father, attempts to kill approx. 2 dozen people by the end...
Final Verdict?
I think he lands, even for the high standard.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Veracruz
Goku Black
Veracruz
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Veracruz. Because consensus seems in favor on Miras, I will EP the businessman. It's actuall one of the very first episodes of the show "Dla Elity" which translates "For the Elite".
An Ukrainian housekeeper threatens her boss with a gun after he harassed her and accused her of being thief. Police prevent any tragedy but businessman fires her. She reveals how she seen couple missing women with him (already at the police station). So police try to examine whole thing;
Who is Janusz Krzycki and what does he do?
Yes, that businessman! At first he comes across as a bully who abuses his houskeeper and reportedly abused his own wife too before she left him but soon turns out to be far more sinister. It seems he might have something to do the loss of couple young college girls. She denies it though when police ask him. Police learn that many girls from college wanted to be models but organization reveals they never arrived on spot. Police find out about "secret casting club" where girls are promised money and career but once they enter the house, it all changes. We see that Janusz Krzycki is in charge and offers his friends to rape women. When one girl speaks up, he says "Now that you are at this house, your opinion doesn't matter!" Later, police spy on him and we see him talking to his dragon and asking to murder one girl who "went out of control". The police enter the building and that leads him trying to escape but he gets caught. Janusz brings police to his dragon (forgot his name) who is about to execute a girl and with a gun pointed at his head, he drops his gun. Both Janusz and his dragon get arrested while girls are freed and they tell how they were isolated, turned into slaves, and how they think rape was actually least bad of all that happened to them. They were beaten, humaliated, and tied to a chair and brutalized and called awful names. And it's confirmed one girl whose crying mother earlier shows up in episode asking where she is, has been killed for spitting on Janusz's face. Narrator reveals Janusz got 25 years in jail while The Dragon got life imprisonment. I feel they both should get same thing but that's neither here nor there.
Heinous?
Not sure. In any other story, he would be very easy keep. But here I am not sure. We have three human traffickers; one us up the other was just approved yesterday. We have couple serial killers (one is up; others aren't quite as bad as that one). We have a serial pedophile who also murdered a child who seen his face. We have a terrorist who organizes mass shootings. And those are just approved C Ms. We also have an old man who raped and murdered 12 year old girl but sadly can't count due to having only one victim. And a man who brutally murdered his toddler step-daughter cause she was "crying too loud". We have a man who kidnapped two teenage girls and held them imprisoned for four years in the basement and constantly raped them (too wary though of proposing someone with such a low number of victims). We have white supremacist gang who hunts immigrants and people of color (sadly, they all including the leader, barely have characterization but I might try someday to at least attempt to EP him). We also have a Russian gangster whom I am planning on proposing too at some point (just need to rewatch the episode). And we have two thugs who broke into a church and murdered a Catholic priest. There are also some more lenient criminals just drug dealers or even some thieves.
Verdict?
Huge Hate Sink and in most stories, very easy keep. Not sure about here though. You ladies and gentlmen decide!
Edited by emperors on Mar 27th 2024 at 4:25:15 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Not the Eye
Palpatine, Veracruz and Janusz
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Janusz: How many victims does he have about; how common IS Human Trafficking for the series; and how many episodes are there?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Palpatine, Veracruz and Janusz
Messenger from another dimension.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
There are 942 episodes so far but the show is still going; season just ended last week; it will be back in the Fall. For now, there are 3 human traffickers. One is up, 2nd got approved and third one, I don't quite find so nasty as other two; especially that his extent of trafficking isn't really elaborated in a detail like other two. Don't know if Janusz could be considered human trafficker; he isn't shipping those girls; he himself is imprisoning them and making his slaves.
Edited by emperors on Mar 27th 2024 at 7:43:07 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
A Child from the Stars
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I guess maybe yes to Janusz? How many victims total?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Messenger from another dimension.
Only one actually dead. One almost killed. And many women are seen entering the home to a "party". Admitteldy, what happens to them after the party if they "obey" and how long has it been going... that isn't elaborated on.
What is the work?
Half-Life 2 is a Sci-Fi First-Person Shooter set in a post-alien invasion Earth.Who is the candidate and what have they done?
The Combine is an inter-universal militaristic alien empire that brought under its domain multiple worlds and potentially universes. Their MO is invading an alien world, enslaving its populace, and taking whatever resources they may have, to the point that their war-machines, like the Striders, are of ambiguous biological origin and may be some form of alien animal retrofitted with advanced weaponry.After the Black Mesa incident in Half-Life, the Combine became aware of Earth and invaded it soon after, defeating the combined might of humanity's armies in a mere seven hours. They originally considered simply exterminating humans due to finding nothing of particular value in them, until Dr Breen convinced them that humanity would be better for the Combine enslaved than genocided, after which they instated a brutal police state, placed a 'suppression field' across the world to prevent humans from reproducing, and are heavily implied to have engaged in mass-infanticide.
The leaders of the Combine are never identified, due to the main invading force having left Earth years prior to the start of the game, but the closest representatives would be the Advisors, psychic grub-like aliens that oversee the administration of Earth. It's, however, left unknown if the Advisors are mere middle-managers or part of the dominant race of the Combine empire.
Any redeeming qualities?
None. It's never implied the Combine do their imperialism for anything other than the acquisition of more power, and them 'sparing' humanity may even be considered a Fate Worse than Death due to rampant surveillance, brainwashing, forced mutilation and cyborg augmentation, as seen in the mutilated human cyborgs that serve as workers for the Citadel - oh, and they're still considering genociding humanity if they fail to produce the results that Dr Breen promised.Are they bad enough?
They are by far the most monstrous of all the villains the franchise has to offer, as the Nihilanth in Half-Life, while he was attempting to invade Earth, was doing so because he was escaping the Combine, and he had at least some shades of a Tragic Villain due to being the last of his species that was genocided by the Combine. Dr. Breen himself is a mere Puppet King of the Combine regime and at least managed to secure humanity more time by coming to terms with the invading force, even if for ultimately selfish and self-serving reasons.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Combine; I just said entire Evil Empires cannot qualify and are the sort of examples the no-groups rule was specifically written to get rid of. It says it right there on Administrivia.Complete Monster:
“Groups lack moral agency, as it's always possible for them to shift blame among each other, claim they were victims to a mob mentality, or otherwise evade full moral responsibility. Further, this trope is about the worst possible villain, and if members of a group are all roughly equal in heinousness, none of them stands out enough.”
Edited by MasterN on Mar 27th 2024 at 6:14:35 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Okay, Polar has informed me of his EP plans and this was not one of them, so going to do it myself.
What is the work?
The work is Final Fantasy VII Remake and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, parts one and two of a trilogy of games that are a remake of Final Fantasy VII.
Who is the character?
The character is Scarlett, head of Shinra's Advanced Weaponry division.
What does she do?
Scarlet got to her current station by designing highly efficient weaponry and robots for Shinra during their war with Wutai. Six years before the start of the main game, she acted as Shinra's representative in negotiations with the village of Corel to build a mako reactor in the region and employ the locals as its workforce. Two years later the reactor was finished and put into operation, but shortly afterwards experienced an unknown system failure and exploded. Shinra sent Scarlet and a force of their military to raze Corel and massacre the townfolk, to craft a cover story that it was a terrorist attack by an anti-Shinra organization.
During the events of Remake, Scarlet primarily concerns herself with the development of powerful Materia in her division. When Yuffie and Sonon infiltrate the Shinra building to steal this Materia, Scarlet notices them and arranges for them to be run through a gauntlet of her experimental weapons. Eventually she faces them herself in her personal battle mech, the Crimson Mare, but the two disable it and restrain her. Scarlet discretely activates a device strapped to her thigh, which activates Shinra's secret elite black ops force, Deepground, and a number of their forces led by Nero the Sable are dispatched to kill the two. In the meantime Scarlet laughs about them infiltrating Shinra for a Materia that they haven't finished yet, and further taunts them with her knowledge that Shinra is about to drop the Sector 7 plate of Midgar, killing thousands. Yuffie and Sonon run off to try and warn people, but are delayed by Deepground's forces that Scarlet sends after them.
In Rebirth, Shinra is interested in acquiring Magnus Materia, terrifically powerful Materia that serves as the power core for the Weapons, biologicial Kaiju that protect the planet. Scarlet is sent to the ruins of the mako reactor in Gongaga to capture a Weapon sighted there, and runs into the protagonists. She battles them using a rebuilt Crimson Mare, but is once again defeated. She retreats to operate the crane when the Weapon appears, but is unable to capture it and orders a retreat.
Are they bad enough?
Where Scarlet stands out from her counterpart in the original game is that her cruelty and delight in hurting others are dialed up and shown in greater detail. She laughs as she battles the party in the Crimson Mare and snarls out battle cries of how she will enjoy killing them. The Crimson Mare itself is outfitted in numerous armaments including laser cannons, blades, and drills, that Scarlet swaps between both to change up her gameplay mechanics and for the fun of utilizing the different weapons at her disposal. During her overseeing the slaughter of Corel, two survivors come upon the village in the aftermath, Dyne and Barret, and are attacked by Shinra. Dyne falls into a gorge and Barret grabs his hand to save him. When the forces under Scarlet's command fail to shoot the two down, she berates them and grabs one of their rifles to do it herself. As bullets tear through their hands, she mocks their bravery and laughs when Barret finally loses his grip and Dyne falls to his death.
Scarlet has no respect and no regard for anyone else. She is contemptuous and insulting to the party at every turn, and uses backhanded sarcastic compliments like praising Barret's bravery, or telling Yuffie she's pretty after she's visibly angered. In the latter scenario, Scarlet happens to get into the same elevator as Yuffie and Sonon at Shinra's headquarters. When she notices the two are Wutaian, she pointedly begins talking about how Wutaians used to be an honorable people, but are now colluding with terrorist groups like Avalanche like "blood-sucking flies", and then turns to Yuffie and prompts her to agree. She clearly enjoys being able to insult them to their faces knowing they can't do anything, since she's accompanied by her security escort.
She even has no concern for her own employees; a Running Gag is Scarlet using Shinra troopers as footstools when she sits and forcing them to crawl after her when she leaves, and when a Materia production process begins to go wrong, she angrily gets up and leaves the room and orders the trooper outside the door to "clean up the mess" as the room explodes, killing the personnel inside. On other occasions, Scarlet is in the room as Shinra discusses atrocities, acts of war, and public manipulation, and though she usually doesn't vocally support these things, she talks down to Reeve, the Only Sane Man of Shinra, when he protests them. Even when she appears on live news before all of Midgar, she barely cares to put on airs of civility and intimidates a newscaster who asks her a question, then pushes his cameraman to the ground, makes a final remark standing above him, and walks off.
Mitigating factors
On one occasion, Scarlet qualifies for Even Evil Has Standards. When Professor Hojo suggests using Aerith as a Breeding Slave and reproduce with members of SOLDIER to produce more Cetra specimens for future study, the rest of the executive board says nothing, but each of them is visibly unnerved and makes a murmur of disapproval; Scarlet specifically turns away and huffs.
As the Remake trilogy has a third part to go, Scarlet's role in the story is not done. But looking ahead, there's nothing promising in her future that may redeem her — in the original game's versions of events yet non covered in Remake, Scarlet oversees the public execution of Tifa, takes over Shinra with Heidegger (another executive) when Rufus is presumed killed by a Weapon, and is ultimately killed with Heidegger when they fight the party in Scarlet's pride and joy, the giant mecha Proudclod. Remake shows the Proudclod (renamed "Pride & Joy") being built in Scarlet's lab, implying this battle is still to come.
It's not entirely impossible Scarlet will do something that could redeem her in this new continuity, but given her personality and desires, it's highly doubtful.
Conclusion
Scarlet is an Ax-Crazy sadist who designs weapons of war meant for mass murder, and when she gets the chance enjoys piloting such machines herself to personally kill her enemies.
to Scarlet. Me and Polar have talked about her and while i could see the argument for her Evil has standards moment not being an issue I can not get past her not being heinous enough because Hojo, a fellow Executive like herelf, with the same resources, is so much worse then her. Sure she is more sadistic then the average Shinra Executive but that is really not pushing her.
her best crime is the Corel village slaughter but it's not like we have two C Ms from the same game who destroyed an entire chunk of the city, oh wait we do
Shinra and Coreno.
She is not a horrible pick and has the personality to be sure and if Part 3 somehow made her bad enough I would not be shocked. But as of now?
Hojo is a high bar to pass
oh and the Combine is a as well
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Mar 27th 2024 at 6:41:26 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
If that Even Evil Has Standards moment is genuine, that’s a . Even a single display of a redeeming quality is enough to disqualify a character. Furthermore, it seems like the only thing she personally does is lead the massacre of a single village on direct orders from Shinra; we require candidates to have more autonomy in their actions. Plus, since her arc is not over yet, it is entirely possible the next installment will give her some other redeeming quality; no matter how unlikely it seems, it HAS happened before.
Not the Eye
Combine and Scarlett
also Polar was going to address Scarlet not counting in the Hojo EP.
I find it in poor form you did not wait for him to make his case before making this.
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Mar 27th 2024 at 6:38:33 AM
pronounced 'Scraggle'
We're not, never have and never are giving up the "organizations cannot qualify." Small groups can qualify if the members are A) independently characterized or B) The Dividual enough to qualify for requisite characterization anyway, but I've yet to see an example of either category that pushes past four members.
Blanket "no" to the Combine and any other group of that size.
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
I messaged Polar, he said he had intent to discuss Hojo, and updates to President Shinra and Corneo, but he made no mention of Scarlett and did not respond to me when I said I intended to EP her. I'm not going to feel bad about talking about someone entirely different from who he intended to talk about and didn't mention he would.
She also tried to kill Yuffie and Sonon when they infiltrated her lab, and tried to kill the heroes at Gongaga. But, observed on your point and that above yours.
Edited by DrakeClawfang on Mar 27th 2024 at 6:44:36 AM
Well he did tell me he intedned to adress why her and another candiate from Rebirth (who I won't address because I will leave that for Polar) don't count
Honestly the fact you did not compare Scarlet to Hojo is baffling.
and I feel you massively underestimated the heinous standard here.
I recommend addressing this next time
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Mar 27th 2024 at 6:46:33 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, 4 is fine; I proposed a group of 8, and even that was pushing it (though they were also voted down for heinousness reasons); an entire empire, unless it's like a Hive Mind or The Dividual or something, is way too much.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Sure to our latest Papa Palpatine
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.