low-poly Shinri
#27: Apr 18th 2023 at 6:48:41 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, but it could use a trim.
As ETSSTG here's my rewrite attempt:
The Trails Series is often praised for it's extensive worldbuilding in regards to the setting, the technology and the characters while the gameplay (especially in The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel) is often criticized for being too easy.
How does it look?
Edited by Ayumi-chan on Apr 18th 2023 at 9:49:31 PM
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Anomalocaris20
from Sagittarius A*
Since: Sep, 2010
Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#28: Apr 18th 2023 at 6:50:25 PM
...Is it criticized for being too easy? I've never really heard that.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
low-poly Shinri
#29: Apr 18th 2023 at 6:56:08 PM
Sorry, I heard that Cold Steel is pretty easy to cheese. But I'm not to sure about it.
Anomalocaris20
from Sagittarius A*
Since: Sep, 2010
Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#30: Apr 18th 2023 at 7:05:28 PM
Might need more external research on difficulty consensus, then.
In the interim, I've updated that GASS entry:
* Gameplay and Story Segregation: One scene in Zero features Lechter and Ganz facing off in a poker match using five-card draw rules, with wildcards in play. However, the only version of poker available to the player is a variant of Super Texas Hold 'Em, with no wildcards.
And with it, added a trope relevant to that scene:
* The Magic Poker Equation: The Trails franchise is no stranger to poker matches being decided by royal flushes pitted against other high-value hands, but a scene in Zero takes it even further by having Lechter and Ganz's poker match conclude with Lechter's five-of-a-kind (even higher value than a royal flush, but only possible with wildcards) trumping Ganz's straight flush. Ganz does not take it well and has to be forcefully escorted out of the casino.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
low-poly Shinri
#31: Apr 18th 2023 at 7:14:56 PM
Yep looks good!
As for the ETSSTG entry, maybe I'll ask in the trails forums about it.
Edited by Ayumi-chan on Apr 18th 2023 at 10:18:11 PM
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MisterTambourineMan
Unbeugsame Klinge
from Under a tree
Since: Jun, 2017
Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#32: Apr 18th 2023 at 7:29:28 PM
For Enjoy the Story, Skip the Game, I'd say cut it. What the gameplay-to-story ratio is is irrelevant to the trope, and it outright says that the gameplay is enjoyable.
Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
low-poly Shinri
#33: Apr 18th 2023 at 9:36:58 PM
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Another crosspost from the Wall Of Text cleanup
Found some text walls in YMMV.Trails Series
Folder cause these are big bois
- Archive Panic: Attempting to binge the entire series will set you back quite a while. For a series that's famous for it's Door Stopper-length scripts in the hundreds of thousands of words per game, between all the sidequests, lots and lots of NPC dialogue that changes every time there's a plot development, and intricate Worldbuilding, it'll take anywhere between 40 to 80 hours on average to fully complete a game, and unlike most Eastern RPG developers, every Trails title takes place concurrently in the same continuity with several references made between games with quite a few character cameos. Between the Trails in the Sky trilogy, the Zero/Azure duology that got a very belated localization, the Cold Steel tetralogy, Reverie and Kuro you're looking at over ten games that will take hundreds of hours to read. Not to mention the novel adaptations, manga that retell each game with their own sidestories, drama CDs that are largely canon, an adaptation of Trails in the Sky running for two 45 minute OVA episodes, another anime that serves as an interquel between Cold Steel II and III, and two mobile games note , you'll be spending a lot of time exploring its world. Missing one of the main games? Get ready to run into Continuity Lockout as explained below.
- Contested Sequel: The 3rd, almost by design. In a series that's favored a heavy focus on sidequests, NPC dialogue, expansive towns, and a very linear structure starring one of the most likable heroines in an RPG, 3rd is drastically different in tone from the Sky trilogy, and indeed any succeeding game in the series. Kevin steps up from his position as a reoccurring side character to a full protagonist, the sidequests and non-playable townsfolk have been entirely dropped, the game takes place a while after the current threat has been dealt with, and the gameplay is centered around an expansive series of interconnected dungeons with nonlinear sidestories catching the player up with what the rest of the cast's been up to off-screen. On one hand, many players felt disappointed that several aspects of the series that stood out from other games of the genre were done away with, and dislike the longer stretches of gameplay, especially if they mainly played for the story. For the other camp, 3rd gets praise for its radically unique approach to conveying story and lore that would've been difficult to fit in otherwise, it's large cast of party members and customization, and generally letting players engage in entertaining scenarios for the heck of it. There's also some debate as to Kevin's merit as a starring lead, and the darker, more personal approach to his story. Most of the fanbase will agree it's a game worth playing for its sendoff to the Liberl cast and foreshadowing story developments that was to come in later arcs, but not everyone will like the game for its changes to the formula. Nonetheless, much of Third's formula, including the doors system, was reused in Trails Into Reverie.
- They Changed It, Now It Sucks!:
- The Liberl Arc requires a party member to simply equip a quartz with the "Information" trait which reveals enemy stats and have it be automatically jotted down in the notebook after combat. After that from the Crossbell Arc and beyond, to obtain information on the enemy, outside of certain quartz that allows automatic note-taking upon killing or landing the killing blow, you have to waste a turn either using "Analyzer" art, "Detector" crafts or the "Battle Scope" item on each type of individual enemy. Not everyone is on board with this change, as players who want to get the information as soon as possible to achieve 100% Completion have to waste the first few precious turns getting information on the enemy instead, which is suicidal on Nightmare difficulty. The second way, hitting it enough times which reveals a portion of the information with each hit, isn't considered much better because there are some enemies like bosses that only show up once and you might find yourself pulling your punches at the last moment because a stat still isn't revealed, potentially costing you the fight.
low-poly Shinri
#34: Apr 19th 2023 at 6:09:07 PM
Found yet another text wall, this time in Characters.Trails Series Imperial Liberation Front
- Moral Myopia: Disparages Osborne as nothing more than a tyrant who will bring Erebonia to ruin while espousing how he and the rest of the ILF are true patriots who will fix it, all the while committing acts of terrorism that endanger many innocent lives who were barely even remotely connected to Osborne or his policies while receiving help from Duke Cayenne, who by all accounts would be far from an improvement. Best seen where he tries to lead an attack on Orchis Tower during an International Trade Conference and was willing to kill the other leaders in attendance(who not only had nothing to do with his and the other members' grudge against Osborne, but in the case of Olivert was one of the few who actively opposes him) as collateral damage. To say nothing of the hot water the Empire would have gone throuh if the rest of his comrades had actually succeeded in destroying the tower via the Railway Guns, which probably would have resulted in every other nation on the continent uniting againt them in retribution in a war that would have done far more damage than Osborne's policies(as of that point) had done.
Anomalocaris20
from Sagittarius A*
Since: Sep, 2010
Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#35: Apr 19th 2023 at 6:18:34 PM
Can probably cut everything after the Aristocrats Are Evil pothole.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
low-poly Shinri
#36: Apr 19th 2023 at 7:02:07 PM
What about ?
Anomalocaris20
from Sagittarius A*
Since: Sep, 2010
Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#37: Apr 19th 2023 at 7:52:15 PM
I agree they need to be trimmed down.
I don't really have the energy to do it myself right now, though, so if you've got a good solution in mind, go at it.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
low-poly Shinri
#38: Apr 21st 2023 at 1:24:47 AM
Another Text wall, this time on Trivia.The Legend Of Heroes Trails From Zero And Trails To Azure
- Late Export for You: XSEED, the company who originally localized titles in the Trails Series for English-language audiences, had been on the record as saying that they'd like to, but various issuesnote made any ports for the platforms under which the game was originally released financially unfeasible. Because of this, the original members of the SSS, as well as Rixia, are first playable in the west in the Erebonia arc, and fans were forced to rely on Fan Translations with no convenient way to support Falcom. Falcom's president has also said he'd like to see them localized. A PS4 remaster the games was made specially for the purpose of making it feasible for those games to finally be released outside of Japan. The Joyoland PC ports of the games were localized by a fan group called the Geofront, in 2020 for Zero and 2021 for Azure. Later in 2021, NIS America struck a deal with Geofront to use these translations as the basis for an official localization for both games, to be released for PlayStation 4, Switch and PC. This meant that Trails from Zero came out in 2022, nearly twelve years after the release of the original, while Trails to Azure released in 2023, again nearly twelve years after the original release.
What should I take out and what should I keep?
Edit: Also, I'm rewriting the YMMV entries starting with the Archive Panic one on my sandbox:
- Archive Panic: The series has a ton of content, ranging from the games themselves (including their Updated Re Release versions), which can take up 40-60 hours to complete, various side media (including novels, manga and Drama CDs) and two animes (one an OVA adaption of the Sky Trilogy and the other an Interquel taking place between Cold Steel II and III. As such, new fans might be overwhelmed by the amount of content and should they start at the start of another game arc (like the Crossbell Arc), they might get confused over certain plot points.
How does it look?
Edited by Ayumi-chan on Apr 21st 2023 at 4:35:36 PM
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low-poly Shinri
#39: Apr 22nd 2023 at 6:54:44 PM
Bumping in regards to
low-poly Shinri
#40: Apr 22nd 2023 at 11:02:31 PM
So in this ATT
I asked if some of the entries here are basically Administrivia.Walkthrough Mode and it turned put to be true. Any way for it to be written as less walkthrough like?
low-poly Shinri
#41: Apr 24th 2023 at 9:52:31 PM
Crossposting from the AST cleanup
These are the now-deleted AST entries for YMMV.The Legend Of Heroes Kuro No Kiseki and I'm curious if some these entries count as ISA or not
- Author's Saving Throw:
- Prior to the Calvard arc's official start, many fans had taken issue with how the Erebonia arc had very minimal reported casualties onscreen despite the focus on war and students attending a military academy, with Cold Steel IV and Reverie in particular barely having any real deaths in general. Kuro I made sure that the shift in tone would be very noticeable with people actually dying onscreen, and Van averting the unspoken "Thou Shalt Not Kill" policy arc protagonists previously had by personally killing Aida onscreen as early as Chapter 1. unsure
- The return of fishing in Kuro II was quite the positive piece of news for those disappointed with the feature's exclusion in the first game. maybe
- For those who felt as though field battles were too bare-bones in the first game, Kuro II throwing Arts into the mix was a welcome addition. unsure
- Granting enemy characters the ability to use S-Breaks has been fairly well-received, as it theoretically adds a bit more difficulty to boss battles. Bosses used S-breaks is common in other Trails games iirc
- Kuro II introduces Connect Events that cover multiple characters at once, such as one for Feri & Aaron. This is largely seen as a step in the right direction, as a common complaint for Bonding Events and their variations was how the interactions within them are often limited to just the protagonist and the one character who triggered it. seems valid
low-poly Shinri
#42: Apr 26th 2023 at 12:16:22 AM
Bumping
low-poly Shinri
#43: Apr 29th 2023 at 6:18:58 PM
This was recently added to Characters.Trails Series Crow Armbrust
- Jack of All Stats: Is this as of Cold Steel IV and Reverie. He has strong physical stats with his Crafts all having decent effects, his ATS stat and EP pool are also above average and has atleast one Craft that's capable of magic damage. His Azure Destiny Craft buffs both stats along with speed, allowing him to hit hard with either stat, and he can swap between his double saber or pistols to hit up close or from a distance, with the latter form giving him potential as an evasion tank. His dual elements of Time and Water give him a decent selection of arts for offense or support.
I originally asked here if it was Walkthrough Mode and it was concluded that's its just very wordy. Any way for a rewrite?
Anomalocaris20
from Sagittarius A*
Since: Sep, 2010
Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#44: Apr 29th 2023 at 6:59:24 PM
Not sure on the rewrite itself, but it may fit better under Magic Knight than Jack of All Stats since it emphasizes that he's simultaneously a physical and magical attacker.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
low-poly Shinri
#45: Apr 29th 2023 at 7:09:19 PM
I'll move it there.
Also what do you think about here and here.
Edit: Crow's character page already has a Magic Knight entry so I expanded it a bit.
Edited by Ayumi-chan on Apr 29th 2023 at 10:10:53 PM
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Anomalocaris20
from Sagittarius A*
Since: Sep, 2010
Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#46: Apr 29th 2023 at 7:26:53 PM
I'll try my best.
- Late Export for You: Both Falcom's president and XSEED, the franchise's English-language localizers at the time, are on record as saying that they'd have liked to bring the Crossbell games over, but various issuesnote made it financially unfeasible for a long time. In 2022 and 2023, nearly twelve years after the release of the original games, the duology were finally given official English releases by NISA, with the cooperation of the Geofront fan translation team.
- Archive Panic: The series has a ton of content; not only are there over ten games within the series (each clocking in at around 40-60 hours of playtime), there's also various official side media such as novels, manga, Drama CDs, and an anime series set between Cold Steel II and Cold Steel III, all of which are part of the series' continuity. As such, new fans might be overwhelmed by the amount of content, especially if they attempt to jump into the series at any point except the beginning.
Might have missed some potholes.
Also not to turn it into Walkthrough Mode, but it might be worth at least mentioning Azure Destiny under the Magic Knight entry, since it simultaneously buffs his Strength and his ATS, encouraging him to attack both ways (at least in theory, in practice it's more useful for making him the most overpowered Arts user in the franchise. 
)
Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Apr 29th 2023 at 10:32:17 AM
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
low-poly Shinri
#47: Apr 29th 2023 at 7:33:41 PM
Thanks, I'll put them in.
low-poly Shinri
#48: May 1st 2023 at 5:39:41 PM
Crossposting from the complaining thread
Was browsing YMMV.The Legend Of Heroes Trails Into Reverie, and saw a few that I feel like are complain-y, but I would like other opinions as well as a possible rewrite:
folder cause there quite a bit
- Fanon Discontinuity: A large number of players were pissed when Chapter 1 showed that seven members of the SSS, which includes the Ninth Dominion and Yin, somehow couldn't make Simulacrum Rufus struggle while they were on their knees, resulting in claims of the game giving an egregious case of You Can't Thwart Stage One and misreading of the series' power scaling. Considering that this is essentially the same line-up that beat Arios and Sigmund while breaking Arianrhod's helmet, these players tend to either use Fan Wank to figure out how is this even possible, or replace how Crossbell's denied independence went down with their own version of events.
- Tainted by the Preview: For as many things that got the fanbase excited for Reverie, there were still pieces of news that certain fans weren't all that happy with.
- Many longtime Trails fans were less than thrilled to see Rean as a protagonist for the fifth game in a row, to the point even fans of his started to think he was being overexposed, even if he isn't the main protagonist this time around. On top of that, his route is considered the most disconnected from the main story (mostly due to not getting to Crossbell until the penultimate chapter), and the lack of party members from arcs outside of Erebonia's (aside from Olivert) didn't help either.
- Another point that had some people complaining was how Rean's route supposedly consisted of just him and New Class VII as main characters. This lead to claims of the latter getting focused over the rest of Old Class VII for the third time, effectively making them the "true Class VII."note This negativity is not universal though, as there are people who prefer New Class VII due to thinking that they were generally handled better than their predecessors. This complaint is also lessened by the idea that not being the focus of Rean's route allows Old Class VII to more freely appear in other routes. In the actual main game, they are only marginally more prominent; New Class VII appears together in Chapter 1 of Rean's route, whilst the rest of it uses a combination of New and Old members, with only Alisa and Machias missing out due to being in Lloyd's route.note
- While the lack of Bonding Points was more or less universally praised, the confirmation that Reverie lets players use a save slot from Cold Steel IV to implement Rean's choice from the fireworks event left some fans groaning at the prospect of Cold Steel's "harem shenanigans" continuing for another game, made worst by the claim of Lloyd and Elie's relationship moving forward. Again though, this is not a universal opinion, as plenty of people are still happy at the idea of their choices carrying over. Come release, and the choice factored in even less than expectednote , with the game opting to instead give each of Rean's 11 suitors one piece of optional dialogue showing their interest in him (If they have a check mark on their name when players first control Rean in his first chapter, they'll have a one-on-one intimate conversation with Rean. If not, then the dialogue is skipped.). What's worse, the news for Lloyd/Elie turned out to be little more than speculation, with all 4 Zero/Azure girls having intimate scenes with him. In the end, the canon status for both Rean and Lloyd is just as ambiguous as before.
- Some fans were hoping that the gameplay would actually be a bit harder than the previous Cold Steel games due to how easy it was to break the Erebonia arc even on Nightmare difficulty. When the demo was released, fans found out that there are two mechanics that break the game even further than they should: the return of Zero Craft turns, and the new "Valiant Rage" mechanic which translates to "the entire party attacking the enemy using either regular attacks, crafts, or arts and restores 2 BP at the cost of one Assault Gauge". Cue the It's Easy, So It Sucks! cry from the fans.
Edited by Ayumi-chan on May 1st 2023 at 8:40:00 PM
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low-poly Shinri
#49: May 3rd 2023 at 5:36:22 AM
Bumping
low-poly Shinri
#50: May 4th 2023 at 6:35:41 PM
Bumping again.
Projects: Short Term:
How to mark attack and art names for the Trails games.
21st Nov '23 4:48:07 AM
Crown Description:
All of the pages are inconsistent with how they mark attack and art names, ranging from them being in quote marks, italicized or not marked. While the official localizations avoid marking attacks, this crowner will determine how they will be marked on the Trails pages for consistency purposes.
Total posts: 164
Put simply, the poker minigame you can play and the poker game Lechter and Ganz play during the story are two different versions of poker.
I guess it counts as Gameplay and Story Segregation simply because the player does not have access to the other variant.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!