Complete Monster Cleanup

Also:

• Don't Make Me Destroy You: Damien threatens Mark with this after he rejects his offer to rule the world together, leading to his death. It's notable as it's the only death in the franchise that Damien appears to feel actual remorse for.
• Pet the Dog: Damien shows a protective side toward Mark, standing up for him when he's bullied. When Mark learns the truth about him, Damien still wants to spare him and begs Mark to come with him. He gives him a quick death when Mark makes it clear that he's having none of it, but he's not without remorse for it.

Edited by WatTambor on Mar 19th 2024 at 4:01:10 PM

Pretty sure Damien gets over that in the third film.

Keep Damien.

At some point he may need to be on the resolved items list if it keeps up.

I’d like to slightly change an entry I did a while back:

• The Rage War: Beatrix Maloney is the leader of the Rage. When the peaceful explorers known as the Founders discovered Xenomorphs and advanced alien technology that could allow others to control them, Maloney murdered their leader, Wordsworth, and took over. Renaming them the Rage, Maloney began breeding Xenomorphs, and once she had built a large enough army, set to conquer humanity. Choosing to test the Xenomorphs on the Yautja, Maloney destroyed many of their populations, driving them into the Human Sphere, while having saboteurs damage the cryosleep pods on human ships, killing those inside, to escalate the conflict between the two races. Upon reaching the Human Sphere, Maloney's android generals attack numerous human settlements, military and civilian alike. When her second capital ship is destroyed, Maloney attempts to attack Earth herself, telling one of the senior board members of Weyland-Yutani that she will not accept surrender.

I’m pretty sure we don’t pothole to Big Bad on CM anymore, so switching the pothole on Maloney’s name to Evil Old Folks would be more fitting.

We don't pothole to Big Bad anymore??? That's news to me.

Though if you'd like we can use Big Bad around "leader" and Evil Old Folks for his name.

Her name, and maybe we’re still allowed to pothole to Big Bad on CM, but we hardly ever do. It’s like potholing The Chessmaster on MB; there are always better things to pothole to.

I don't recall that being a rule. But sure if there's something more specific than Big Bad we'd definitely use that.

ACW:Everything is fine, relax, no one prohibits you from using Big Bad, there are no changes or rules about this.

Critica, I'm sorry, but could you please not act as if Big Bad doesn't need to be used? Nobody banned it, we still use it, and if this trope had been banned from using in relation to CM, we would have been informed. If you want to change to another trope, okay, but "but we hardly ever do", sorry but this is not true, there are many C Ms in which one of the potholes has a Big Bad, like several works with several C Ms, among which the main villain and they were indicated in a pothole like Big Bad. I have no idea why you get the feeling that we almost never used this, but look at examples, be it movies or games. You'll see quite a few examples using Big Bad. So no changes, the trope is used and if people want to use Big Bad then ok, if they want to change to another trope, fine. Hope my message was not rude, I wanted to clarify the situation so that people were not misled that the trope cannot be used.

Yeah. If there's a better trope, sure. But the difference between Big Bad and, say, The Chessmaster, is the latter is pretty much ubiquitous for MBs. The former isn't as ubiquitous (albeit still fairly common) for CMs.

EDIT: Who's a consensus cut? Mandy Lane I think, and 1 or two more?

Edited by ACW on Mar 20th 2024 at 9:05:00 AM

I wasn't trying to get Damien cut, I just wanted to know what should be done about those two entries, whether we should delete them and let the full entry on the franchise's YMMV page speak for his status.

Yes we usually do that

Maybe put

Complete Monster: Damien see here

on each YMMV page?

Edited by LarryT on Mar 20th 2024 at 10:38:24 AM

There have been questions about whether or not that counts as a ZCE, though, and I don't know if they were ever answered. Until that happens, I'd rather just keep it as it is (even the solo entry on II mentions Damien killing his cousin, which is a heinous enough crime on its own that I'm not against having it by itself).

Not really sure why people are being told to relax and whatnot but Big Bad is just... kind of a boring pothole, as are the "story position" ones in general. My stance is use it if there's nothing better but there's certainly no rule precluding them from being used.

Yes, these are my thoughts and what I said in my message.

ACW:Mandy and Werner.

Bumping an entry I raised concerns about a while ago that seems to have been lost in the shuffle.

From Mythology & Religion:

• The Demiurge, or Yaldabaoth, is a take on the Old Testament God, used to explain the Problem of Evil. A malevolent false god, Yaldabaoth is the source of humanity's sinful nature and all the misery, who takes joy in human evil, so long as he's worshiped as the Top God. Yaldabaoth created the physical realm, and humanity, as debaucherous and mindless creatures, before the higher gods took pity on them and granted them knowledge and souls, thus giving access to the true spiritual world. The materialistic Yaldabaoth would prefer to manipulate the world in wickedness, keeping humanity in the dark of the spiritual world. This puts him in direct conflict with his mother Sophia, who in some versions was destroyed by her son, with her remnants becoming humanity's souls.

This is a particularly egregious case of Depending on the Writer and, at the very least, should be rewritten to follow the appropriate protocol.

Let me simply summarize Williams’s findings briefly. Some texts trace a dualism back to the roots of all being, before Demiurges. Some describe Demiurges who are evil from the start and produce all later evil, although no information is given about whether or not they themselves derive from evil principles. Some talk about Demiurges who fell away from an original monistic perfection or who began as good but later revolted. Some demiurgic myths are not anti-cosmic but treat the cosmos as having a proper place in the greater scheme. In some, the devolution of the Demiurges is part of a providential divine plan aimed at an ultimate good. Some talk about Demiurges who are not evil but good, or who grow into goodness [Webb (2014), summarizing Williams (1996)].

Edited by Spinosegnosaurus77 on Mar 21st 2024 at 11:36:41 AM

Sure to rewriting Yaldabaoth's entry.

Edited by fanman on Mar 22nd 2024 at 12:04:11 PM

Looks good.

So I noticed that all of G-Editor's contributions that couldn't be vouched for were cut.

Well, I can personally put a pin on Sentius from The Forgotten City not counting. Even with the restriction of the Golden Rule, he simply doesn't do enough to make the cut. He takes advantage of Prosepina's prayer to become immortal, sure, and he even mocks the idea of morality, but he still just isn't bad enough compared to the others.

Aurelia and Malleolus work together to scam people and put them in debt, forcing them into slavery, Malleolus started the Great Fire of Rome, Desius withholds life-saving medicine for an insane price and tries to lock the player in a room to die in a room full of hornets. Finally, the Assassin, who isn't aware of the Golden Rule, coldly boasts how he'll kill every one in the city simply because he believes them to be cultists, and nothing you say will convince him otherwise.

In comparison, Sentius really doesn't stack up, Golden Rule or not. I know Sentius was already cut, but like I said, I just wanted to put a pin in the discussion just in case anyone tries to propose him in the future.

Aight in that case just move him from the G-Editor folder to the main folder and add your reasonings.

Does "Fails heinous standard compared to others in the setting," sum it up well enough?

That should be fine, same reasoning has been listed on the page before.

Done.

Cut Sentius

I’m cool with rewriting Yaldabaoth’s entry to clarify that he’s Made of Evil in some versions

My one question on Sentius before I rule him a done deal: how aware is he of the nature of the Golden Curse? IIRC the late-game reveal about the Golden Rule is that everyone turned into a statue remains conscious forever. Being willing to condemn a city to that fate would make him bad enough if he's aware of that clause—if.

Edited by Starkrafty on Mar 22nd 2024 at 8:30:02 AM

I don't think there's any indication he's aware the statues are stil conscious. Yes, he knows they can come to life when the Golden Rule is broken, but that doesn't imply anything more. The player only knows because of Naevia's experiments, which also make her worse than Sentius, because she kept stripping the statues of their flesh despite knowing the immense pain it caused just because she fell in love with one of them.

Besides, the only time Sentius deliberately breaks the Golden Rule is when he's in danger of being exposed, and he does so knowing the player has no choice but to go back in time and undo it. The player is actually bound to deliberately break the rule much more frequently throughout the the story in trying to solve the mystery of the city. (Yes, it's possible to beat the game with only a single loop if you play optimally, but that requires you to have already played the game and know all the right choices.)

Alright, I'm peachy keen on ruling Sentius a non-qualifier, then.