Misused: Loony Fan

The problem: Loony Fan is a trope about an obsessive fan who follows the characters around. However, it is being misused for obsessive fans who do not follow the main characters around, as well as obsessive fans of people other than the main characters. It is also attracting a large number of ZCEs (mainly in the form of potholes).

The wick check: Here is the wick check I did. Full results in the check, but here are the quick totals:

• 13/50 examples, or 26%, are correct.
• 8/50 examples, or 16%, are about an obsessive fan who does not follow the main characters around.
• 11/50 examples, or 22%, are about a crazy fan of someone other than the main characters.
• 5/50 examples, or 10%, were unclear or other kinds of misuse, and
• 13/50 examples, or 26%, were ZCEs.

Totaling the incorrect examples together, that's

• 13/50 examples, or 26%, correct.
• 37/50 examples, or 74%, incorrect.

There may be more ZCEs too, as I had to do outside research for some of the wicks.

The (possible) solutions: I have two possible solutions that we could use.

• The first possible solution would be to simply expand Loony Fan to cover the misuse of "any crazy fan". The original name would be kept under this solution.
  • On one hand, that would mean we wouldn't have to clean wicks (just alter the description), and the concept could be (possibly) tropeworthy and very common in media. On the other hand, the concept could also possibly be too broad, as crazy fans are extremely common in media, and I'm not sure what details such a trope would really be analyzing since the concept is so broad. It could also keep attracting ZCEs to a larger degree than my other proposed solution.
• The second possible solution would be to rename Loony Fan to emphasize that it is about the stalker aspect. This would likely entail expanding the trope to non-main characters. Possible names could include Stalker Fan, Crazy Stalker Fan, Loony Stalker Fan, or Deranged Stalker Fan. I like the fourth personally. The old name could become a redirect, or a disambiguation to both this new trope and related tropes such as Straw Fan, Stalker with a Crush, and so on. I am leaning towards this solution personally.
  • On one hand, this would create a more specific tropable concept of a crazy stalker fan, which could also keep the examples from becoming too broad. The new name would also more clearly establish what this trope is. On the other hand, we would need to clean 1,915 wicks, and we could also be restricting such a trope too much, assuming the broadened version of Loony Fan is tropeworthy.

What does everyone else think? Any other ideas or concerns?

I'd like to go with option 2 (changing the name to something more indicative) plus expanding to include characters other than the main characters, which I think is an unnecessary restriction.

I'm against option 1 because the fact that the words "fanboy" and "fangirl" appear in the section for non-stalker misuse leads me to believe that option 1 would make this redundant with Fanboy and Fangirl.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 18th 2022 at 7:31:37 AM

I like Option 1 better. To me, the main point of the trope isn't necessarily the stalking part per se, but the obsessiveness of the fan. Theres a TLP draft for (what is now) the idea of a sports fan who takes their devtion to a sport or a team to seemingly absurd levels. I thought the draft would do better with expanding it to be about any fan of something who's intensely into their interest in a way that goes above and beyond what is typical. I think Loony Fan is/was doing exactly that.

I 100% understand the concern though that doing so would make it essentially Fangirl and/or Fanboy taken to 11, but tbh reading these tropes, they are both poorly defined enough as to raise their own questions. Fangirl comes off as more of a fanspeak term as written. According to the page it once was used to cover a female character who obsesses over a particular male character in a series which seems like a gender specific version of option 2, but "The term has since widened beyond that stereotype to include girls who are merely fans of something or other." That last add on means that now the trope just covers any female fan of something, which is pretty chairs.

Fanboy also has issues. The first sentence makes it seem like its covering option 1 already (however it is still gender focused on males men only) but then also muddles the definition by adding both "the term "fanboy" is usually reserved for antisocial people with a self-inflated ego over their knowledge and/or mastery of the topic in question, often parading it around and belittling those around him" (which is now a much more narrow concept focused on a condescending fan) AND that this is essentially the non Japanese version of otaku, while also acknowledging that that term doesn't really have the self-importance aspect that seems to be the differentiating factor for fanboy from fangirl.

Idk, there's some weirdness going around with all of these terms

Edited by amathieu13 on May 18th 2022 at 10:22:27 AM

I prefer Option 1 as well. In this day and age, where people can be obsessive with others without even being in the same country as them, it feels kind of outdated to limiting this trope to physical stalking.

In regards to the Fanboy vs. Loony Fan debate, I think the Loony Fan has more of a negative connotation than someone who simply really, really likes a person, and more often than not is respectful about it.

Edited by MatthewWayne on May 18th 2022 at 7:26:40 AM

I'm good with the option to expand and keep the name, though if we decide to rename as well, I won't object.

Edited by Berrenta on May 18th 2022 at 11:19:40 AM

Option 1. If the trope is expanded to include loony fans who don't necessarily follow their beloveds, I see no issue with a name like "Loony Fan".

Option 1.

After seeing what others have said regarding option 1, I think I'm going to switch my vote to it.

+1 to expand, might be down for a rename depending on suggestions.

Neglected to mention that I'm against renaming if we expand.

Expand. Not feeling renaming yet, I'll just wait for consensus.

Edited by Amonimus on May 18th 2022 at 8:29:47 PM

Expand. Not against renaming.

I'm for expanding, but don't think this needs a rename.

to expanding without renaming

Yeah, expanding seems solid. If that sports fan draft becomes an issue, it can just be a subtrope, as a sports fanatic is a different flavor of fan lunacy anyway.

I don't think "rabid sports fans" is that strongly related to this concept, but can be addressed when we rewrite.

Yeah I'm switching to option 1 per the reasons given.

Wouldn't a rabid sports fan trope, and possibly also an expanded Loony Fan (less sure about this one), be a supertrope to Football Hooligans?

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 18th 2022 at 1:13:27 PM

I also agree with expanding the trope to not only fans of the main character, and to allow forms of obsessiveness other than stalking.

Haven't seen the TLP draft, so what I had in mind turned out to be Football Hooligans. Could be a sistertrope instead of subtrope because I don't see Loony Fan expansion to cover above it. Again, I'd rather see how the expansion goes first.

Edited by Amonimus on May 18th 2022 at 9:24:58 PM

It's basically just "obsessive sports fan, usually for a particular team, as a characterization trope". A lot of the examples have ZCE issues, but we're trying to iron those out.

Expanding is fine. Not every comically obsessive fan is also a stalker and I don't know if splitting is necessary when Stalker with a Crush and Stalker without a Crush cover most of the "stalker fan" examples.

The connotations of "fan" for fandoms and sports fans are different enough (for one, most sports fans aren't depicted as attracted to the athletes they support, more invested in the game itself, while crazy fans have more parasocial obsessions with the people themselves) that I don't have a problem with the sports draft.

well that's kind of different. being obsessive with a hobby need not mean you are obsessed with a person. the reason why I suggested expanding the sports TLP to cover anyone who takes their hobby to the extreme is because it could quite easily snowball into a bunch of duplicate tropes for "character with an obsessive and extreme interest in [insert preferred hobby]".

when we talk about "expanding" the definition, that's what I'm in favor of, which is why I discussed fangirl and fanboy, particularly the latter. Not just being obsessed with a person since not all interest/hobbies are people focused

Edited by amathieu13 on May 18th 2022 at 12:41:40 PM

I'm fine with expanding. A rename isn't necessary since the current name is pretty clear.

^