Misused: Administrivia.No Straight Examples Please

No Straight Examples, Please!, like Definition-Only Pages (before TRS cleaned it up), has attracted some odd examples that are outside the index's scope, in this case because they have nothing to do with Playing with a Trope. In particular, some entries belong on other Example Sectionectomy indexes like No On-Page Examples or Definition-Only Pages, and some say "none", implying they don't belong on any Sectionectomy index.

As for some specific questionable entries (in no specific order, and chosen for the sake of providing a semi-random sample):

• The Antagonist: Banned: on-page examples
• The Law of Conservation of Detail: Banned: on-page examples
• Rounded Character: on-page examples

On-page examples have nothing to do with playing with a trope; these would fit neatly on the No On-Page Examples index.

• Characters: Banned: Definition-Only
• The Climax: Banned: Definition-Only
• Conflict: Banned: Definition-Only
• Consistency: Banned: Definition-Only

OK, I admit that I wasn't entirely honest about choosing semi-random samples. These four are listed one after the other, and they all belong under Definition-Only Pages, because they don't allow any examples rather than simply not allowing straight examples.

• Anthropic Principle: Banned: none
• Dénouement: Banned: none
• Heroic Build: Banned: none

"None"? So no examples are banned? These could just be deleted, as it seems like they don't belong on any Example Sectionectomy indexes.

As a side note, there are several entries that say only aversions are allowed. Since a trope that's averted isn't in the work at all, these might be worth taking to TRS themselves in the case of tropes that aren't omnipresent, similarly to what happened with Nobody Over 50 Is Gay and Stray Shots Strike Nothing. However, since batch threads tend to get messy, I'm not going to do anything with them in this thread.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Move cases of "Definition-Only" to Definition-Only Pages and "on-page examples" to No On-Page Examples that aren't already. For the rest provide an understandable explanation of why are they banned like No On-Page Examples or NoRealLife.Impossible In Real Life do and remove those that don't make sense.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Come play Character Uplift Game!

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I think that most of the rules were the unilateral actions of random editors, rather than wiki consensus. It would be better to do a breakdown of a group of pages at a time and consider if they even need to be on the index in the first place.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

That sounds like a plan, a page that's supposed to be this definitive should probably get a checkup (and probably not allow unilateral additions like that)

"Grandmaster Combat, son!"

I agree with doing this on a case-by-case basis, similarly to what the Definition-Only Pages thread did. The only exceptions would be the ones whose "banned" descriptors indicate that they should be on Definition-Only Pages or No On-Page Examples instead of No Straight Examples, Please!; I think we can transplant those smoothly.

It's mainly the ones that say "banned: none" that baffle me, because I don't know why they were added.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 6th 2022 at 8:04:30 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

The page arrived "fully-formed", about 3 years ago... With at least Punchline as "Banned: None".

Where was its conception?

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Administrivia.NoStraightExamplesPlease&more=t#edit23158329

Edited by Malady on Feb 7th 2022 at 9:59:02 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

Odd, I thought Administrivia requires mods to create pages in it, and I'm pretty sure crazysamaritan wasn't a mod yet.

Was there a move at some point? Was the rule about the namespace not always the case? I'm confused.

I'll summon ~crazysamaritan, since they apparently created the page.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Administrivia, for some reason, is a free-to-create namespace.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Oh interesting. I didn't know that.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Administrivia/ (and SelfDemonstrating/) really shouldn't be free to create pages in, but that isn't the scope of this thread.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

& : Correct.

Reorganizing the "sectionectomy" pages happened in the Sandbox namespace initially. I got some good feedback about the separation, but I used very rough guidelines to establish which articles were sorted where. I had hoped to get more discussion on the sorting after we established the general idea, but I got a lot of "just go ahead" and did so. It's been long enough since creating the initial sandbox that I don't remember what list Heroic Build was on, but since the page itself didn't establish a rule for example restriction, it obviously didn't have one, despite the list that it was on.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I was thinking we could start by deciding whether we should move the entries that say they're definition-only or forbid on-page examples, since those definitely don't belong on this index (since, as I said, they have nothing to do with Playing with a Trope), but it wouldn't hurt to decide whether they should be moved to Definition-Only Pages or No On-Page Examples (respectively) or just removed from the index entirely, in case their additions to No Straight Examples, Please! lacked sufficient discussion in the thread(s) that discussed this index (which I can't check, since they were originally added to a sandbox and the sandbox was deleted after the final page was put in place).

I'll run a crowner for those entries tomorrow (per the Three-Day Rule), so we can get those out of the way followed by focusing on what's left after those are taken care of.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 8th 2022 at 5:39:41 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I remember making a cleanup thread and TRS about Definition-Only Pages and a precursor page. Aye, No Straight Examples, Please! should be limited to these that have rules about playing with examples like Most Common Superpower which I always cite, and not contain any other page.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

My previous post post was kind of long-winded, but to sum up what the crowner for sorting entries that say "definition-only" or "on-page examples" would look like, it would be set up like this:

• One crowner entry per index entry
• Each crowner entry would state whether it says "definition-only" or "on-page examples"
• Voting up would mean moving the entry to Definition-Only Pages or No On-Page Examples (depending on why it's listed) and removing it from No Straight Examples, Please!
• Voting down would mean removing the entry from No Straight Examples, Please!, but not moving it to another index

This crowner wouldn't cover either the entries that mention Playing with a Trope or the ones that say "none"; it would be for weeding out entries that are listed as being definition-only or forbidding on-page examples, but shouldn't be listed as such, such as if they were added simply because they didn't have any existing examples, such as if they should have been put on Tropes Needing Examples and/or Pages Needing Wicks instead.

Weeding out bad entries would be akin to how the TRS thread for Definition-Only Pages removed entries that were added because they lacked examples even if there was no reason why they shouldn't have them, meaning they should have gone under Tropes Needing Examples and/or Pages Needing Wicks instead)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 8th 2022 at 5:57:22 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Double posting because this is kind of important, but later I'll go through the index and remove entries that say "definition-only" or "on-page examples" that are already on Definition-Only Pages or No On-Page Examples (unless someone else gets to it), and then the crowner would cover anything that wasn't duplicated.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I deleted entries that were duplicates of listings on Definition-Only Pages and No On-Page Examples, so the crowner I'll hook later will just cover what's left among the entries that say either "definition-only" or "on-page examples".

Edit: And I filled in the descriptors for Anthropic Principle and Heroic Build because their descriptions indicate that they do belong on this index. However, Dénouement and Punchline do not have similar text in their descriptions, so I'm leaning toward removing them from the index.

Edit: I removed those two since their descriptions don't mention any ban on straight examples.

Edit: I also removed Realistic Diction Is Unrealistic, which didn't say anything in its listing (it just listed the trope name, rather than saying "none"), since its trope page lists both straight examples and exceptions. In fact, it looks like it mostly lists straight examples.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 9th 2022 at 5:54:08 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Realistic Diction Is Unrealistic looks like it might just not have enough examples to go on index.

It sounds sorta Omnipresent in that you can't Avert it except in the absence of dialogue? You either play it straight or invert it?

Edited by Malady on Feb 9th 2022 at 5:05:43 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

It does sound like something that would be omnipresent, but the fact that we have so many straight examples listed means we couldn't easily enforce a No Straight Examples, Please! listing for it without cleaning up every example that isn't played with in some way.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

These are basically indexes or encyclopedic explanations of things "every story would have", so Definition-Only for them is logical.

Not sure about The Law of Conservation of Detail due to the large wick count, but I think most of its examples are confused with Chekhov's Armoury. (I didn't say it Definition-Only here because I can see the crowner)

Edited by Amonimus on Feb 9th 2022 at 6:45:55 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

That trope would go under No On-Page Examples, not Definition-Only Pages.

And either way, we're just cleaning up the list on the No Straight Examples, Please! index. We wouldn't be touching the wicks of any of the tropes that come up in this thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 9th 2022 at 9:43:15 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Nudging for votes.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.