Tropes Needing TRS cleanup and discussion thread

A trope which looks to me like 2 tropes in 1 is A Lizard Named "Liz". I think that a new trope called A Lizard Named Scaly should be split off of it - entries which refer to the name of the animal type remain while entries which refer to some general attribute (physical, behavioral, etc) should go in the new trope.

I've gone ahead and sent them a Wall of Text notifier and commented out the entry/sub-bullet so that they can still restructure them later.

See How to Do a Wick Check. Launching a related trope sounds (and, in most cases, is) well and good, but the specific issues ALNL has should go through some osmosis beforehand in order to more widely cut down on misuse/duplicates/what have you.

Digging Game was definitely intended to be an index. In my experience, TV Tropes has not been very consistent regarding whether context is required, encouraged or prohibited for index pages.

What is has to do with Tropes Needing TRS?

As for inconsistencies with how we regard genre pages, this question has been popping up rather frequently that I think we could Wiki Talk about it.

Should I add Bury Your Disabled to the page? As it’s defined currently on the main page, it just mentions that it’s any disabled character that dies, which is People Sit on Chairs. The definition should be closer to Bury Your Gays which is when a LGBT character is disproportionately targeted by the narrative for death.

As a result of the current definition, people are just listing every time a disabled character dies in fiction ever, and I recently sent the real life section to NRLEP because of the exact same issue alongside some ROCRJ violations.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 3rd 2023 at 11:08:01 AM

I mean, sure, go for it.

Digging Game is (and already was) listed as one of the Tropes Needing TRS. I had a part in its creation.

Chop Sockey has a total of 58 wicks—which isn't too bad, but only five on-page examples. It doesn't have a Laconic either.

Mind if it gets sent to and rebuilt at TLP?

Edited by AmourMitts on Jan 23rd 2024 at 3:34:05 AM

It needs to be crosswicked as a first measure. And lacking a laconic isn't a serious issue.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 23rd 2024 at 6:34:30 AM

Actually subjective - I believe that Level 1 Music Represents should be an Audience Reaction, because it is about the first level's music becoming iconic and getting treated as the game's main theme (displacing the title screen theme if there is one).

This iconicity implies popularity with the audience making the theme iconic to begin with, and sure enough, the reason given for why this usually happens is audience driven:

"After all, chances are that people will spend more time on the first level learning the ropes rather than admiring the title screen".

Okay, the item's page does seem to also include developments within the works themselves under its scope— namely, that subsequent installments of a series may use the music in question as main theme even though that wasn't necessarily the original intent. However, this would still be a consequence of the audience reaction— namely, that the developers do this in response to the fans elevating the theme to iconicity in the first place.

Hi! Just added Take That, Index!, which definitely should be included inside Take That!, much like it was done with Heroic Sacrifice and the former index "Heroic Sacrifices".

Also, is there an equivalent to this but for Image Pickin'?

That sounds reasonable. As for the second question, we have Sandbox.Image Pickin Backlog for new suggestions, but I'm not aware of anything for raising concerns about existing images.

I'm sorry if this is impulsive. I was looking at some tropes and wondered about One Person, One Power overlapping with Magicby Any Other Name, where I left a discussion on the trope. The trope seems too similar to Magic by Any Other Name when it describes how powers can be identified, like Differently Powered Individuals. Am I seeing the same trope where the one difference is how it describes how one person has one power each, and it needs to go to the Tropes Needing TRS, or am I looking at it wrong?

Edited by nightlightie on Mar 21st 2024 at 7:22:58 AM

So, the trope of the day is From the Ashes, which has a very vague title, only 42 wicks, and even some complaining despite apparently being neutral. Permission to add this to the list?

The actual definition is so vague, and other pages just repeat the same sentence verbatim about it, that I'm not sure anyone has a good idea about what it's supposed to be.

I did a wick check on School for Scheming and I couldn't find it being confused for Academy of Evil at all. It does have a high ZCE rate but that can probably be fixed without TRS. So it can be moved to "not needing TRS"?

E: did

Edited by mathfreak231 on Apr 6th 2024 at 11:42:00 AM

I support that.

I may do another cleanup spree tomorrow while I'm off work, just to weed out examples that had/have threads open as well as other curious things.

I do want to dispute the Mandela Effect one now, though. The source to the issues is one single post by a troper just claiming that there's a lot of misuse. As for the ban evader thing, it's already been agreed that TLP drafts launched by evaders get a pass since TLP is collaborative and once launched it belongs to the wiki. It reminds me of the issues we had in the past of things being added because one person on one occasion claimed it needed TRS.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 28th 2024 at 2:04:23 PM

If there isn't any perceived misuse, then I support its removal.

I'm also wondering if Level 1 Music Represents really needs TRS. If the main theme of a video game's first level or opening area is ascended to being the flagship music of the series or franchise, that's something that can be objectively measured (for example, compare how many Zelda games have featured that classic overworld track that plays when you begin playing the NES original, or how many Mario games include the music that plays when you begin 1-1 from the first NES game). The entry claims that it should be an Audience Reaction because the recurrence of the first level's music is the result of people recognizing it as soon as they hear it, but... I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure how is it even possible to determine that to be the case. Perhaps the music plays in many installments because the developers either like it a lot or truly feel that it gives the series a sense of identity, and the audience recognizing it may be a consequence of the trope rather than the cause.

Yeah, I agree. I think it boils down to "it's the first music the audience hears, so it becomes nostalgic and representative of the work" much like how opening levels themselves are infamous.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 28th 2024 at 2:26:16 PM

Nvm

Edited by Riolugirl on Apr 28th 2024 at 8:44:48 PM

Fans Prefer the New Her is meant for disliked makeover In-Universe, but the fans like it. However, it’s almost always being used for fans loving the new look, without any indication that it’s treated as a bad thing.

Is this a TRS worthy item or should it just be a cleanup thread?

Any second opinions regarding Level 1 Music Represents? Or can I safely remove it?

Level 1 Music Represents does need TRS in my opinion. Its description says "If sequels continue to use the Level 1 music from the first game, it's also a form of First Installment Wins." Thus, the trope's current definition doesn't actually require the music to be heard more than once in the series. The only requirement is that the audience associates the music with the series as a whole. And, because it's also possible for some people to forget the song from Level 1, the trope should be YMMV.

I suspect that our disagreement comes from the large amount of weasel words in the trope description, such as "frequently," "sometimes," "likely," and "perhaps," as if the trope itself can't decide what it wants to be. Yet another reason to take this to the Trope Repair Shop (or TDID at the very least).

Edited by FSharp on Apr 28th 2024 at 1:59:52 PM

I was the one who added the note about the ban evader, FYI. I mostly did it out of habit since another trope listed there had the same caution, but I understand if it's not really an issue. Personally I'd remove Mandela Effect but still keep an eye on it, since Beam Me Up, Scotty! has nitpicking problems (so I wouldn't be surprised if ME did).

As for Level 1 Music Represents, I'm mostly with MFE. What bothers me though is that the entry insists it's "squarely" an Audience Reaction, and like...that just doesn't feel accurate at all? It's not like it's a musical version of Ensemble Dark Horse, and its prevalence among the audience for casual video games is definitely something the creators were aiming for. Off the top of my head, the music in Devotion largely serves as a leitmotif for Mei Shin, and "R9, To The Front!" was catchy for its tune; the "some of the best theme music of all time" opinion only increased after it was extended to the main theme in-canon, which is the inverse if anything and probably wouldn't fit that example if it was a reaction.