Misused: Dueling Works

The difference is those are all YMMV/Just for Fun stuff, Dueling Works is trying to be a sort of weird Trivia trope, again as people have said the issue isn't that it is subjective it is a bunch of other problems. Can you please not use the Slippery Slope Fallacy as an argument for a problem we are trying to address.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 24th 2021 at 10:09:48 AM

Slippery Slope Fallacy, friend, and has nothing to do with what's happening here.

Look, if you want to protest a cut, that's fine, but don't do it by throwing fallacies at us and accusing us of positions nobody here actually holds. Nothing you said there actually addresses any of HMHC's points.

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 24th 2021 at 1:08:52 PM

Edited by costanton11 on Sep 24th 2021 at 12:11:29 PM

FWIW, I also meant to add "I do not think this needs to be a 'citation needed' type of trope" to my earlier post, but I forgot, and... yeah.

People are putting in potential solutions as well as advocating for cuts. Why not comment on those instead of attacking the other side?

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 24th 2021 at 12:13:49 PM

We generally only use citation needed for tropes as a last resort like what was done with Unfortunate Implications.

The YMMV/Moments subpages aren't going away any time soon. They've been there forever, add a more interactive aspect to the site and are harmless. The problem is Dueling Works is not designated as such, even JFF.

I can imagine down the line that after the cut, a JFF can be built with more rules to prevent the kind of misuse OP brought up, as well as a better structure than the woefully messed up columns.

This

Edited by GrafVonTirol on Sep 24th 2021 at 10:26:08 AM

If Dueling Works was always Just for Fun this thread probably wouldn't exist.

...Save for the glitch, which would've affected it either way.

All that said I think the following ~major paths~ have emerged:

• Cut
• Keep as trivia, focus on behind-the-scenes details (focus on release dates and news outlets hyping up the rivalry)
• Make JFF

The latter two would of course involve shanking the table layout

I would rather just cut and start from scratch I can't see this being saved in its current form.

I think saving it is possible, but it'd helped if we sandboxed alternate, table-less layouts first.

If it helps, none of the examples on the main trope page use the tables, only the subpages do, which I think is even more of a reason to cut out the table format entirely.

Created a crowner

What about the mentioned options to restrict the scope (within 1 year or release runs overlap, must have similar subject matter)? And my suggestion to remove the win/lose?

Those can still be added on.

Probably the smart approach:

• Cut Dueling Products (not as work-relevant)
• Yard Dueling Works as trivia, make a separate JustForFun.Work Vs Work and establish ground rules

Edited by GrafVonTirol on Sep 24th 2021 at 1:43:40 AM

I suppose one alternative to fixing the ugly tables would be to scrap what's already in the tables and replace the on-page examples with crosswicked copies of off-page examples, with the new lists using standard bullet points instead of tables, since I'd imagine off-page examples don't use that format.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 24th 2021 at 7:06:48 AM

Attached it.

Just a bit of concern. We have this Older related thread that was under TRS but moved to Short Term Projects.

The problems addressed from that thread are overdue for reform, but yeah. Remove the table format. Plus rename the "Winner" to "Results", since I felt it was biased.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Sep 26th 2021 at 3:44:13 AM

Does this crowner include Dueling Products in addition to Dueling Works?

Edit: I posted an ATT bulletin for the crowner.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 25th 2021 at 2:45:08 PM

I guess that should have the table format removed.

I agree, but I don't know if Dueling Products is within this thread's scope. There was a wick check for Dueling Works, but not one for Dueling Products.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 25th 2021 at 2:53:08 PM

Removing the table layout is unanimously in favor, so I think it's safe to say we'll end up doing that when the crowner is ready to call (which would be the 28th at the earliest unless it needs more time to stabilize). I think the best way to do that would be to copy the pages' contents to sandboxes instead of directly editing the subpages, since going through the table code might take a while, and replace the tables with bulleted lists, then transplant the sandboxed lists back to the actual subpages once the coding work is done.

Posting to make public that I voted for the following actions, none of which are mutually exclusive:

• Remove the table layout. Unless (I'm feeling too pessimistic to say "until") we improve its wiki coding, it's going to be difficult to implement without making the inner text in the rows/columns hard to read.
• Keep as trivia with stricter standards. I had suggested that we should focus on how journalists compare the games.
• Remove the win/lose elaboration. If it's not voted enough for removal, then at least make it focus exclusively on each work's review aggregates and sales.

I didn't downvote any of the other options.

Since it looks like the tables are getting canned come what may, I've prototyped a layout at Sandbox.Dueling Works Anime And Manga.

I kinda wish there was a bit more space between entries as the page looks a little crowded, but at least it's readable and looks somewhat less like ass.