Not Tropeworthy (alt names crowner 5 July 2021): Recycled In Space

So, uh, yeah. I think we can all see what the problems here are. Most notably, even most of the correct examples don't really bother to actually describe the plot of the work. Also, lots and lots of space references.

(New page so I'll put the results up here)

Again: Wick Check In Space

Results:

• 2/72: Correct usage (older work + gimmick/twist + some context about the twist)
• 34/72: "X with a Twist" low-context examples
• 3/72: Recycled other elements (plots, characters) without a stated twist
• 4/72" Fantastic version of a trope
• 1/72: Complaining (which is actually an example of "X with a twist")
• 15/72: References to space in general
• 2/72: Recycled character
• 4/72: Other ZCE
• 7/72: Other/Unsorted

I think even with the low-context examples there's a split between those that are intentional recyclings (The Fireman, The Flintstones) and those that read like similarities the audience picked up on.

I am not so opposed to a JFF move now.

Potential misuse catchers:

• X Meets Y
• Surprisingly-Similar Stories
• Recycled Premise (which lists Recycled In Space as a subtrope)
• Setting Update

Edited by Synchronicity on May 14th 2021 at 1:20:12 PM

Possibly relevant interesting point: Setting Update asks that examples "not be done in Recycled In Space style, as that is ZCE." Page history does not go back far enough, but it seems that at one time the "X with TWIST" format was encouraged?

Looking at the actual wick check, it's almost like I was right the whole time; nobody knows what this trope is supposed to be. Only I (somehow) didn't realize this was a big ZCE magnet as well.

No one was saying you were wrong, just that more evidence would be nicer for such a big move.

I got your PM saying I linked to the wrong thread in the TRS notice; thanks for fixing it since I wasn't home at the time. I have no idea how the Morgued thread for Five Races got in my clipboard.

Edit: Not just Main.Recycled In Space; every notice I added had the same Five Races link. I went through my history and corrected all of them.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 14th 2021 at 2:42:37 PM

I think we should just put down strict guidelines for this trope to avoid misuse instead of cutting it.

Edited by DongwaChan on May 16th 2021 at 11:33:06 AM

What guidelines, though?

I don't recall anyone being in favor of cutting it entirely, as opposed to moving it to Just for Fun due to its similarities to X Meets Y.

Either way, I have the same question as jandn above.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2021 at 11:27:18 AM

Fine, we should move this trope over to Just For Fun.

We also have This Is Your Premise on Drugs, so some of the usage can move there.

I do think that there's a legitimate "Twist on a Plot" trope to be had, but we need context for those instead of just saying "it's x, but y".

I feel like this is basically a valid trope, but due to being highly-wicked, an older trope, and IN SPACE! being somewhat of a meme, it's accumulated a lot of low context examples. Perhaps a cleanup thread and description rewrite is the way to go here?

I am rather dubious that for meme-like misuse a cleanup alone would suffice. It's also a pretty bad name.

No matter what happens, clean-up is needed. Even just quickly glancing through the page, I'm spotting a lot of bad examples:

• "Discworld is The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy ON EVEN MORE DRUGS!" (Not seeing the similarity.)
• "Redwall is Game of Thrones WITH FURRIES!" (Redwall came first. Also, it features talking animals, not furries.)
• "The Selection is The Hunger Games WITH PRINCESSES!" (Not familiar with The Selection, but looking at its page, I don't think it involves them killing each other?)

If anything about it is kept "the original work that's being put in space should be older" can be a guideline. Like that seems like it should be obvious but tropers be tropers.

I guess let's take this this example from the wick check. This was intentional on the part of the creators; the pitch was King Lear and The Lion in Winter "with a hip hop record label" (and also Dynasty with black people):

1. Series.Empire: The Lion in Winter, but with hip hop.

If this is expanded, the characters aligned to The Lion in Winter, would the expanded example just read like Recycled Premise? What about Recycled In Space makes it splittable, besides the memery? Or is a gimmicky retelling enough to make a splitworthy difference?

I'm pretty sure I've already said any examples that have sufficient context (i.e., they say more than "Work X is Work Y WITH A TWIST!") can be sandboxed and sent to TLP. I'm still in favor of moving the X Meets Y-style examples we have now to Just for Fun.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 21st 2021 at 3:42:34 AM

I don't think it'd be Recycled Premise, since the premise is being twisted with a gimmick, and I do think the "gimmick twist" concept is different enough from just any old recycled plot. The idea seems to be that, well, obviously they need to give the story SOME twist to help it stand out, and those gimmicks are a tropeworthy concept beyond just "plot is reused".

To me, it's the difference between a Shoddy Knockoff Product toy that exactly copies the original mold, and one that transforms the toy somehow. Both of them are recycled ideas, but one of them will often attract more buyers due to the silly gimmick, whereas the other one is often seen as much lazier or shadier. Obviously comparing plots to bootleg toys is a false equivalence, but you get what I'm saying, right? The gimmick exists to help people remember and watch it, while not having the gimmick can make the work seem more like straight up plagiarism or idea-theft.

Edited by WarJay77 on May 21st 2021 at 4:46:17 AM

Would it be a good situation to have both a JFF page for the low-context memery and a proper trope in Recycled with a Gimmick (or whatever the TLP ends up being called? If I had not looked up the context, the Empire example would go in the former when it really is better in the latter, and I suspect a lot of low context examples will go that way.

Not a vote for yes or no on my end, just curious to hear some opinions.

Edited by Synchronicity on May 21st 2021 at 4:13:41 AM

That’s what I’ve been wanting to do as well. A majority of the on-page examples are just jokey stuff, so they can be migrated to a JFF page. Any valid examples can be moved to a TLP draft for Recycled with a Gimmick.

And obviously if people want to provide context for any of the ZCEs, those can be added to Recycled with a Gimmick.

I'm wondering if there would be room for a trope about relocating a plot to a furturistic/fantasy setting? Kind of a sister to Setting Update. Or would this simply be "X with Gimmick"? This would target some of the more literal "STORY in SPACE" usages.

I think that could just be rolled into Recycled with a Gimmick.

I'm in favor of Recycled with a Gimmick, for the record.

I probably should have made it more clear that I'm in favor of both launching Recycled with a Gimmick and transplanting the current incarnation of Recycled In Space to Just for Fun, with the X Meets Y-style examples going on the latter and the non-ZCEs going in the former.

It's better Recycled with a Gimmick