X Meets Y Nuances: ZCEs, Bloated Entries, and Fan Myopia

Continuing this discussion from this ATT thread. As discussed there, the whole JustForFun.X Meets Y series of pages is chock full of entries that are just straight-up zero-context examples, with Fan Myopia in full effect here as each entry expects viewers to be familiar with the works just to understand the supposed similarities. Some of these entries can become bloated with Walls of Text, making them incomprehensible to read at times.

Currently, the only safeguard the pages have in place is a rule forbidding users from changing and deleting entries to prevent bias-driven alterations, but this may prove problematic in the future if we're unable to clean up the entries because of it.

Edited by DivineFlame100 on Dec 11th 2020 at 12:51:33 PM

I mean, this is a Just for Fun page, not a trope, so Zero-Context Example rules don't really apply. That Crash 4 example on ATT was ridiculously long, though.

I understand that Just For Fun pages are not meant to be taken seriously, but that article in its current state is pretty much unreadable. If there was a new rule encouraging tropers to explain the similarities between the works, I believe the page would greatly benefit from it.

As for the Crash 4 example, the consensus seems to be that it's overly long and makes many meaningless comparisons, so trimming it should probably be the way to go.

This Just for Fun page has a lot of issues. I found a few bloated entries in the anime section.

• Cross Ange: Rondo of Angels and Dragons is Mobile Suit Gundam SEED meets Choudenji Machine Voltes V meets Toushou Daimos meets Code Geass meets Valvrave the Liberator meets The Vision of Escaflowne meets Neon Genesis Evangelion meets Infinite Stratos meets Kill la Kill meets Kamen Rider Gaim meets Ultraman Nexus meets Ultraman Zero.

• Kill la Kill:
  • Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann meets Revolutionary Girl Utena meets JoJo's Bizarre Adventure meets Kamen Rider BLACK meets Kamen Rider 555, with helpings of Pretty Cure, Go Nagai, Mortal Kombat and Scryed, along with a dash of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance added in for good measure.
  • Cutey Honey meets BlazBlue meets Mortal Kombat along with a touch of Sonic Adventure 2.
  • Dragon Ball Z meets Revolutionary Girl Utena
  • Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann meets Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt.
  • Sukeban Deka meets FLCL.
  • Project A-Ko meets Kill Bill.
  • Chrono Trigger meets Sonic Adventure 2

• Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: FLCL meets GaoGaiGar.
  • Alternatively, Dead Leaves does GaoGaiGar (it, Gurren Lagann, and the fifth episode of FLCL were all directed by the same guy).
  • Or Gunbuster meets Getter Robo meets Megas XLR.
  • Or Mobile Fighter G Gundam meets Exalted.
  • Or Neon Genesis Evangelion meets a bag of crack.
  • More like Transformers on testosterone, adrenaline, growth hormones... AND with a small dash of cocaine.
  • Or Mobile Fighter G Gundam meets Star Wars.
  • According to the writer himself, it's Getter Robo in the setting of Xabungle.
  • Mazinger Z -or Great Mazinger- meets Getter Robo meets GunBuster.
  • Gundam meets One Piece.

The last one has indention issues and the other two are way too bloated.

Edited by ReynTime250 on Dec 11th 2020 at 12:56:19 PM

This is really overkill. I can barely understand the references in those entries.

Yeah, JFF or not, this seems like something that needs a rule or two. Comparisons ought to be obvious or substantial, and any more than three feels like flimsy territory. Of course familiarity with the works is needed, but if you're familiar and don't see where the comparison is coming for, there's a problem.

Also, "Evangelion meets a bag of crack" and "Transformers on testosterone, etc." are This Is Your Premise on Drugs, not X Meets Y.

Edited by Serac on Dec 12th 2020 at 8:30:58 AM

Why isn't This Is Your Premise on Drugs a Just for Fun page?

It's actually indexed in Just for Fun, but it's treated as a YMMV item despite that.

I was considering Trope Repair Shop for this page, but because it is a Pothole Magnet.

Sounds like a reasonable course of action. All the wicks are laid out on the pages for everyone to see, so finding wicks shouldn't be a problem.

Also may be relevant: This ATT about an entry for Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time.

Oops! I didn't click the link!

Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Dec 14th 2020 at 9:21:14 AM

That's what spurred this thread in the first place... see the OP.

Also, on X Meets Y, some of them I'm not so sure about. For instance, I'm a huge Trekkie and I noticed that they claimed Hoshi Sato was a cross between Sulu and Deanna Troi, but the only similarities I see are:

• Hoshi and Sulu have the same initials (which they pointed out) and are both Asian and have Japanese first names.
• Hoshi and Troi are both women, they both have dark hair and eyes, they both have ponytails, and their jobs both begin with "C" (Counselor vs. Com officer.)
• All three characters are optimists.

That's literally all they have in common.

I mean...idk. The fact that it's JFF makes me uneasy with the idea of policing it. On the other hand...it's a mess.

Bump I guess. What about if the examples require context?

I wrote this one in Sonic the Hedgehog:

• Infinite from Sonic Forces is Kylo Ren (a Darth Vader Clone, although lacking the Hidden Depths or tragic elements) meets The Scarecrow from the Batman: Arkham Series (a sadist who, with the power of illusions, torments people in order to provoke fear into them).

At least, I explained why the character reminded me of both characters. I avoided comparisons with characters from the franchise itself to avoid Fan Myopia. Could we apply this to all entries?

I want to rewrite the entries, but I feel it would be in bad taste to the edits of previous tropers.

Edited by Tomodachi on Jan 12th 2021 at 1:09:00 AM

Never mind, I don't think you are allowed to edit other tropers' entries. Your example seems fine, though.

Edited by TantaMonty on Jan 13th 2021 at 9:15:22 AM

Since I cannot edit other tropers examples, I sent Metroid to the cutlist. Quoting myself: "The page became a cesspool of Fan Myopia and Zero Context Examples. Even if I fixed most of what I can, it doesn't warrant a subpage. I recommend cutting the page, as there is nothing I can do to fix it."

Edited by Tomodachi on Jan 13th 2021 at 9:46:43 AM

TBH, that rule forbidding changes to examples is becoming too detrimental to the cleanup effort. It's probably best to remove it entirely.

The first rule I would put for X meets Y is that there can't be more than three works to compare a work to.

The second rule I would apply: "You can only compare two properties (hence X meets Y), but you can provide context to the examples, which could allow a third comparison (thus, W). Only with context, otherwise it will be deleted."

I feel like The X of Y has similar nuances, after seeing TheXOfY.SCP Foundation and it's just listing article titles. Plus not all of the titles are indicative of the articles contents.

I have a related question: Hamilton's casting calls actually do have "x meets y" type of descriptions; George Washington for example is listed as "John Legend meets Mufasa" (soulful, gravitas-filled singing meets wise father figure/leader). I had previously listed them on Trivia.Hamilton, but now they're also on Characters.Hamilton with no context. Should they be listed as examples at all there?

I always believed that those examples should be put in the page, but credited at the end of the sentence. Ex: Purple is Blue meets Red, according to Fulanito.

Edited by Tomodachi on Jan 20th 2021 at 9:15:00 AM

I'll link an ATT this problem was brought up and also bump. Live Action TV Characters Kamen Rider Reiwa Phase 1 is a growing tumor and I think it needs surgery of some kind.