Asshole Victim Cleanup

Apparently, the following example was added to Film.Who Framed Roger Rabbit:

• Asshole Victim: Marvin Acme, in addition to playing pattycake with another guy's wife, has a habit of playing pranks on people without regard for whether his targets will enjoy it.

While I've removed it as misuse, does this example count?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Was Acme one of the Toons Judge Doom killed? It's been a hot minute since I've seen Roger Rabbit, but I feel this might just fit if it's talking about how his victims deserve or or it might fit Laser-Guided Karma better. If it's a mystery on who killed Acme and he's a Jerkass, it's Who Murdered the Asshole.

Edited by Klavice on May 15th 2023 at 8:38:08 AM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.

As far as I know, Marvin Acme's one of the resident pranksters, but not generally a Jerkass nor a Toon.

Edited by gjjones on May 15th 2023 at 12:50:51 PM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

I mean, yeah... being a prankster doesn't warrant being murdered. And the playing pattycake thing is literal. I don't think there's any case to call Marvin Acme a jerkass.

Edited by WarJay77 on May 16th 2023 at 2:01:16 PM

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Yeah so axe away, I say. Out of curiousity, given that Nagito Komaeda had serious trauma in his life involving his parents dying in a plane crash, as a result of said plane crash, getting Frontaltemporal Dementia, and Lymphoma cancer which is killing him, should he really be listed under Who murdered the asshole for case 2-5? Granted he was hated by the cast of Goodbye Despair but he's got plenty of Freudian Excuse for his behaviour with both Lymphoma and FTD killing his brain and thought process. Also the one person to end him was the least likely suspect, and it was mostly self inflicted suicide.

Edited by Klavice on May 22nd 2023 at 11:02:56 AM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.

I dunno, he still is the ultimate asshole who did got another person killed and tried more, and the chapter is about finding out how he died. Him being actually mentally ill is only revealed in an optional dialogue.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Hi there,

A long time ago, I added (well, I think it was me?) the following entry to Zebra Girl's main page:

• Kick The Son Of A Bitch: After everything Gregory did to her and her friends (including kidnapping Sam, poisoning Wally and nearly killing Jack), you can't really feel bad for him when Sandra decides to make him suffer and send him to hell as the first soul she ever claimed.

Now, since Kick The Son Of A Bitch no longer exists, I was wondering if Asshole Victim may qualify instead, so I figured it was for the best to ask here before making the change.

To add a little more context: Gregory is a Well-Intentioned Extremist demon hunter, who antagonizes and almost kills the main character, Sandra, simply because she became a demon (as a result of a magical accident; she really wants to go back to being a human, and has not done anything bad as a demon - until what he tried to do to her and her friends made her snap) because, as he puts it, "Whether or not Sandra has an evil personality is irrelevant. The essence of hell on Earth can only bring harm. As a demonic creature, she represents a deleterious element which can not be tolerated." (turns out he was not exactly wrong, as Sandra's presence on Earth and the return of magic led to a lot of unforeseen consequences, some good, some bad). Ultimately, he doesn't die, and after a long while in hell he has come to reflect and regret his actions.

The thing is, AV is now a Supertrope and most of what would fit AV usually fits one of its other Tropes listed under it. Feel free to add him to Asshole Victim if he's not any of the other Tropes although I think LGK fits him better. And LGK doesn't necessarily mean a villain getting their comeuppance it can also be for Fake Ultimate Hero and arrogant Jerk with a Heart of Gold.

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.

Noted! I will follow your advice, thank you very much!

Looking at Kick The Son Of A Bitch cleanup, what's the difference between Pay Evil unto Evil and Asshole Victim beyond a difference in scale?

Asshole Victim says:

So, it's a matter of presentation? Because of "portrayed"?

Edited by Malady on Jun 13th 2023 at 5:09:54 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

Asshole Victims don't have to be evil, nor does their karma have to come from a hero. They are just there to be victims the audience doesn't sympathize with, whatever form that takes.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

The following example was just added to WesternAnimation.Scooby Doo On Zombie Island:

• Asshole Victim: The pirates, while being trapped as zombies against their will, were the ones who terrorized and caused the deaths of Lena and Simone's entire colony.

Does this fit?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Assuming there are not sub-tropes that they fall under (I checked and I didn't see any), they should count since something bad happened to them and they're terrible people from what I can find.

After reading this thread, I’ve removed two examples occurring in my fanfic The Bolt Chronicles. Since the character deaths resulted because of their own actions, I figured they fit Laser-Guided Karma exclusively. See these links:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fanfic.TheBoltChronicles

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=AssholeVictim.FanWorks

If this wasn’t the correct action to take, please let me know.

Thanks!

So, just to be clear on it, would Asshole Victim be mutually exclusive with the Accidental Suicide trope? I ask because there's an NPC in Genshin Impact who is killed by his own setup when he tries to murder someone who ended up overpowering him. Said NPC was then dumped into a position where his prior setup results in his death, though the one who put him there didn't know that would happen to him.

For the Scooby Doo example, I'd say it works but it should specify that it's the original pirates that are the assholes, as many others have been zombified since, including soldiers from the Civil War (one could still make an argument for the Confederates), as well as a lot of tourists the villains abducted.

I think the Malgram entries on Kamen Rider Gotchard should go on the account that getting defeated by the heroes does not make them victims, not especially when their civilian forms are unharmed afterwards. Any second opinions before I go ahead and remove them?

I saw this on Star Wars – Mace Windu

• Asshole Victim: Downplayed, but Mace was the cause of so many headaches throughout the Clone Wars, such as callously disimissing Ahsoka's expulsion as a "great trial", constantly talking down to and distrusting Anakin and being a total jerk to most people that aren't part of the Council.

Is this a valid example? Yes Mace is a huge asshole but his death was portrayed pretty tragically in Episode III and Anakin felt remorseful of it.

Short answer: Mace could still count, even if his death is played for tragedy. I can name plenty of examples like him. Long answer: A death can still be played for tragedy if the victim was an asshole. Like to use an example, moat of the victims of Ace Attorney are AV yet regarded with some form of tragedy to their deaths, not counting the Greater-Scope Villain and the Big Bad of each game. To use an example from Danganronpa 2 Goodbye Despair Nagito Komaeda instigated murders, showed apathy to victims and killers alike, yet his death is played as a horrible thing. Even when it's revealed he caused his own death setting up a Suicide by Cop for the traitor to kill him. Catharsis Factor only applies if the villain is not only not mourned but people are dancing on their grave.

Edited by Klavice on Oct 6th 2023 at 1:47:47 AM

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.

To keeping Windu. Huge asshole with the added context of The Clone Wars, and I'd argue his death is more tragic because of the context of it and what killing him does to Anakin than because of sympathy for him as a character.

Edited by PhiSat on Oct 6th 2023 at 11:29:21 AM

Oissu!

Keep Windu

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

Leonold70 has added back Asshole Victim to Kamen Rider Gotchard under Malgram In General, but the way they reworded how they victims ("...every defeat they suffer...") convinced me enough to leave it.

What is the line drawn when counting Asshole Victim as a victim? I initially though getting defeated in their monster form wouldn't especially when the person in question comes out unharmed.

Edited by Kindle4Light on Oct 10th 2023 at 3:21:02 AM

After I removed the Asshole Victim trope from Characters.South Park Eric Cartman, since super-tropes are not to be listed when their sub-tropes (i.e. Karmic Butt-Monkey and Laser-Guided Karma) are, the following example was re-added by G-Editor:

• Asshole Victim: Discussed with Butters when he tells Stan and Kyle not to show Cartman any sympathy for ending up alone, homeless, and miserable by saying that he deserves this horrible fate for being such a terrible person as a child.

Given that, should we remove it or keep it?

Edited by gjjones on Oct 14th 2023 at 11:53:42 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

I don't think it's an example anyway, since it's covered by Beyond Redemption (meaning Cartman isn't a victim in this case).

Silver and gold, silver and gold

Is this an example of Asshole Victim? It's about Watts from RWBY, who gets burned alive by Cinder as revenge for a previous "The Reason You Suck" Speech. He is objectively an arsehole, but his speech was extremely popular with the fandom (it was regarded as an Audience Surrogate moment) and he's killed by her using a divine artefact that magically surrounds him with fire while on a floating city that's falling out of the sky. His death is directly linked to something he did because Cinder always goes after people who damage her ego.

• Asshole Victim: Being left to get either cooked or crushed after being thoroughly outwitted despite his own credible genius is at best a humiliating way to go. Watts fully earned it however, as he let his pettiness lead him down a truly evil path.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.