🍊orange fursona🧡
I'm asking again. Can Muse be checked?
Edit: Never mind. I'll do that.
Edit 2: And done removing the First-Person Writing. If I miss something, you glean on the rest. Thank you.
Edited by alnair20aug93 on Jul 1st 2023 at 5:24:33 PM
ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔|I DO COMMISSIONS|ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔
Jeez the Star Trek headscratchers really need a clean-up. Some editors are just complaining about captains they hate.
Some examples of "answers" in Star Trek: Enterprise:
- Or you know, Archer is just an idiot. This was the same starship captain that had to ask T'Pol why it was taking longer to get where they were going after they'd slowed down! I wouldn't put this guy in charge of putting my hat on straight, let alone Earth's most advanced spaceship.
- Actually, it makes Archer seem like a pretty bad dog owner (we already know he's an idiot)!
- The writers were just as clueless regarding fanservice as they were about every other aspect of good television?
While Star Trek: Voyager - Characters has a whole section of many paragraphs were the only question and the "discussion" is why Janeway sucks and is not killed by the crew.
Edited by TVGuy on Jul 12th 2023 at 6:36:39 AM
Those can probably just be cut.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I think those are It Just Bugs Me relics that can be axed.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
It will be quite the chunk, sure there will be no complain from someone?
If you link to this thread in your edit reason, it should probably be fine.
Logic Girl
Another from the Star Trek Voyager characters page:
- The key words being "if handled properly." But, as we have so often seen, Voyager's writers very seldom handled anything properly. Such a delicate situation would require kid gloves, not their typical ham-fisted klutzery. So it's probably for the best that they didn't go there...
That can probably be cut.
Flashgitz's Worst Enemy... (He/him)
Headscratchers.Sabrina Online has a ton of first-person writing amongst other problems, but this portion of "Zig's computer illiteracy" stands out to me:
- I've actually known two high level executives who don't know how to work e-mail. One would actually make his secretary print them all out for him.
I don't know about you, but that subbullet I just listed looks like a gratuitous Troper Tale and should likely be cut on principle. Any other suggestions?
Edited by OmegaPC777 on Aug 18th 2023 at 4:20:07 AM
"How could you stop an idea?" (Check out my troper wall if you can!)
Yeah, that needs to go.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Flashgitz's Worst Enemy... (He/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I've accordingly tried my best to fix the page. I hope it looks better now.
RJ Savoy
There's a major entry in Headscratchers.Dan And Mabs Furry Adventures that... bugs me. It's about Mab. For non-readers, this is a major character who acts as comic relief for much of the story as it goes darker and more dramatic, but is then shown to be a manipulative figure with superhuman planning abilities. The entry badly misunderstands her as being some kind of villain; she is planning for someone to die, but out of many worse outcomes.
On the one hand, it's an ugly chunk of text with too many responses (some of them written with six indentation marks). On the other hand, obviously someone got confused and it might be worthwhile to have something addressing it, but much briefer and easier to read.
There's also an entry about the gender of Mink, but this is intentionally obfuscated by the comic.
Again there are far too many bulletpoints.
So, rewrite or cut?
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I feel like Headscratchers is one of the few places we can allow people to express misunderstandings about a work or share different opinions about the same event. We can trim them but there's no point in cutting.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
RJ Savoy
So maybe this:
- She's the Big Bad, apparently.
- Given the competition and what little we have heard, that's unlikely. She has bigger things in mind that will probably become clearer later — it's not a good idea to judge her when we don't even know what she has in mind. That said, whatever she is planning, there is no indication that she's "doing this for kicks". If she was, then in the same arc that told us what she was up to, she wouldn't look like this.
- Can't you tell that the Fae are evil? It's pretty subtle, but when you see it, you will shit bricks.
- Oh please, they're not evil, they're chaotic. Contrary to popular belief, there is a difference.
- Nah, that's just her still getting over losing her adoptive mom. Still think she's the Big Bad.
- You're kidding, right? :/
- Apparently not. Is it that hard to believe that the seemingly carefree and bubbleheaded Mab might actually be smart, cunning and capable of planning ahead after 400,000 plus years of life? (That little tidbit is All There in the Manual, as part of one of the hidden cast pages.) There's also the fact that the Fae have their own set of rules that is so long that ordinary beings die of old age before they can hear it all. This is also stacked on top of the fact that each cubi seems to have their own morals and ethics. And, finally she knows far more about the whole situation than anybody else involved. Thus:
- Its the end that matters, not the means. This troper can't understand why people hate her so much. Considering that she has the cast's best interests at heart. Without her, they would all probably die.
- Well the fey do have light shades of The Fair Folk)
- Given the competition and what little we have heard, that's unlikely. She has bigger things in mind that will probably become clearer later — it's not a good idea to judge her when we don't even know what she has in mind. That said, whatever she is planning, there is no indication that she's "doing this for kicks". If she was, then in the same arc that told us what she was up to, she wouldn't look like this
- She's a nigh-omniscient, nigh-omnipotent being, and with 'that' kind of power, Of course... Therefore, it's most likely her current plan is the one that works out best for all of them (except the two who have to bite it), but the alternatives are worse... Everyone in the comic 'does' have powerful enemies, or would if it weren't for Mab's intervention.
- Just what I was thinking: Mab is Well-Intentioned Extremist who might not be so extreme as to be designated "evil". Maybe Well Intentioned Sorta-Extremist.
- Well Intentioned Moderate.
- Just what I was thinking: Mab is Well-Intentioned Extremist who might not be so extreme as to be designated "evil". Maybe Well Intentioned Sorta-Extremist.
Could be trimmed to:
- Why is Mab treating her supposed friends as chess pieces in a plan that includes at least one of them dying?
- With her ability to predict the future and vast knowledge on a cosmic level, it is likely that her plan is the best outcome she can see for everyone involved. It is clear that most of the cast have powerful enemies who Mab is holding off, but there may be some limit to what she can do. While her people have chaotic, amoral tendencies, her reaction shows that she is not doing this out of sadistic enjoyment.
- With her ability to predict the future and vast knowledge on a cosmic level, it is likely that her plan is the best outcome she can see for everyone involved. It is clear that most of the cast have powerful enemies who Mab is holding off, but there may be some limit to what she can do. While her people have chaotic, amoral tendencies, her reaction
RJ Savoy
Could I have some input here? It's a drastic change I'm suggesting and I don't want to do it unilaterally.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
- How exactly does a person speak "bustily"?
This strikes me as less of a legitimate question and more like someone snarking at the novel's prose.
the Retromancer
Angry babby
To be fair, it is also genuinely confusing and I am now actively trying to imagine it.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
Agree to cut.
Is this an example of Headscratchers? It seems to be nitpicking a random fan theory rather than asking genuine questions about the actual content of the show (for example, the show makes it so clear that Salem initially tries killing herself to overcome the curse and reunite with Ozma and then later as acts of spite against the gods for inflicting such a curse on her that no-one in the fandom interprets those scenes as her having learned the value of life and death).
- Many believe that Salem's curse has a built-in win condition i.e. as soon as she enters the right state of mind and appreciates the importance of life and death, it will be lifted; the gods don't have to lift her curse themselves. But hasn't the story, and the underlying logic, effectively disproved that? The first and biggest issue is that, shortly after getting her curse, Salem began trying to kill herself. If she's seeking death, most would say she appreciates its importance. After all, if she'd killed herself as soon as Ozma died, she'd never have turned the gods on each other, and everyone would be happy. But granted it's implicit she was only trying to kill herself to see Ozma again, so one could say she hadn't actually had the needed revelation. But being separated from Ozma was the only reason her immortality was a curse at the start. Could she only win her game if she somehow made herself stop wanting the promised reward? Does she have to realize that the planet would get overcrowded if there was no death? How is only her being immortal going to teach her that? Perhaps the gods have a special awareness of some cosmic reason that almost all beings need to die, but then how is a mere human supposed to learn that reason no matter how long they live? Does she have to realize that living forever simply sucks because you'd get tired? Okay, but if there's an afterlife, either there's a state of existence in which such boredom isn't an issue, or trying to escape such boredom is futile for anyone. Plus, Ozpin claims she wants to kill herself in the present, and it's obviously not to get back with him, so if he's telling the truth, wouldn't her curse have been lifted by now? It seems the gods deliberate actions are the only way Salem's curse can be lifted, or are we missing something?
That's a lot of text. A question should be about what happens in the work, not what other people theorize about the work. And also not several questions in a big paragraph.
So the troper who added the above entry has re-added it with a few superficial amendments to remove references to the fact this is questions about fan theories (for example, it no longer says "Many believe that Salem's curse has a built-in win condition", instead claiming "which rather decisively states that her curse has a win-condition", thereby changing a fan interpretation into a claim that this what the show itself is saying)
Is this acceptable for them to add back? Is this an edit war? Should they have come here if they wanted to salvage an entry for the Headscratchers page? I can actually think of some quite simple ways to salvage this.
- The God of Light told Salem "You must learn the importance of life and death. Only then may you rest," which rather decisively states that her curse has a win-condition, and doesn't need to be lifted by the Gods' direct intervention. So why wasn't her curse lifted when she began trying to kill herself? She clearly appreciated life beforehand, and wouldn't desperately want death if she hadn't come realize its importance. Or what about in the present, assuming Ozpin is right that she wants to die because she's just tired of living? What other possible understandings of "the importance of life and death" besides "if there's no death, you'll never see your loved ones again" or "you'd get bored" could there be that she either hasn't already achieved, but her curse could feasibly help teach her? (Only she is immortal, so it won't teach her the dangers of overpopulation, and she still lacks any cosmic insight the Gods might have.)
Possible salvage option:
- The God of Light told Salem "You must learn the importance of life and death. Only then may you rest." Questions:
- Why wasn't her curse lifted when she began trying to kill herself? (Didn't she desire death because she appreciated life and realised its importance?)
- What understanding of life and death could her curse of immortality feasibly help teach her beyond she'll never see her loved ones again without death or that she'll get bored with life (assuming Ozpin is right about her being tired of living)?
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 4th 2023 at 11:47:31 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Apparently, Headscratchers.Tangled has a really aggressive commented out warning against deleting anything. It's been there since 2012, but history shows that it wasn't as simple as "someone added it". People edit warred over it, over the wording, over if it was hidden, etc. and it's remained in this latest form for over a decade.
Do we want to keep it around? It seems just kind of unhelpful now, especially as one troper ended up making a dupe folder because of the text demanding that nothing get deleted.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I already cutlisted that page a while back.