Removing complaining in Star Wars subpages

The prequel version of Palpatine is the first one to get actual criticism, but he honestly gets more praise, too, so I think we can call it a 50-50. Still, the only reason he gets any criticism at all is the hammy acting, but I actually like that acting.

Edit: I honestly misrepresented my own argument. Palpatine gets criticized in the prequels, but only because this was the first time people were willing to criticize the franchise. Many fans, myself included, find Ian McDirmad to be a highlight of that trilogy. So no, not Narm, and not even that criticized.

Edited by EarthboundFan on Jan 15th 2020 at 9:05:50 AM

I'm not argumenting prequels!Sidious is disliked. I just said I didn't think he was popular enough to turn his narmy scenes into narm charm. The most famous thing about Sidious in the internet seems to be his ridiculousness ("Gooooood", "Unlimited POWAH!"), unlike people like Maul who is seen as a badass or Dooku who has the advantage of Sir Christopher Lee's style. That sounded to me like people laughing at him, not with him, if you know what I mean.

Now, I only know that from the internet. I hail from a country where the prequel trilogy was huge at its time and is still surprisingly well regarded, so all the opinions I could collect among my own circles about Sidious might easily fall into Germans Love David Hasselhoff in a way or another. Therefore, I'd say your non-internet anecdotical experience is probably more reliable than mine in a general sense. If most of you can tell people actually liked his hamminess, then I have no trouble with it.

Edited by Cieloazul on Jan 15th 2020 at 10:15:19 AM

There is I don’t like "sand" Narm where the dialogue is clearly wooden and there is old Sheev who turns every dialogue into a theatrical opera.

He functions as a larger-than-life figure and thus could get away with cheesy lines if he acts like he’s having fun.

Being that apparently there is a consensus about that Sidious is appropriately funny, maybe we could move the Sidious content to Narm Charm or the Revenge of the Sith Funny page?

Edited by Cieloazul on Jan 17th 2020 at 9:33:04 AM

Narm Charm

Narm Charm

Edited by RoundRobin on Jan 17th 2020 at 10:52:23 PM

I'm also going to go with Narm Charm.

Oh, and in regards to the replacement image for TheScrappy.Star Wars, there is Jaxxon and this variant cover.

It has the benefit of being a character not portrayed by an actor, a much more light-hearted annoyance from the cast rather than someone punching Jar Jar and unlike Jar Jar, Jaxxon did actually make a cameo as a skeleton in the desert◊ (something JJ Abrams only teased during the production of TFA).

There's even rumors that his abrupt drop out from the Marvel Comics Star Wars was due to George Lucas looking at the character once and putting a mandate on the writers to never use the character again.

Actually, why do we even need two subpages of The Scrappy of Star Wars? They could be combined into one.

Edited by Shadao on Jan 18th 2020 at 10:05:48 AM

Jaxxon is a way less controversial character than Jar Jar. I say we go with the comic cover.

Stop talking about the image here. Make a thread for it if you want it replaced.

Done.

Almost everything on Memes.The Rise Of Skywalker is complaining about the film, and some of them I can't find any evidence of being a meme, like "The Fall of Skywalker" and "Did you ever hear the tragedy of the Skywalkers?". Googling those in quotes just brought me to the meme page and a couple negative reviews of the film, none of which were memes.

"Palpatine wins" is what really got me. To say he won would be Fridge Horror at best. Also, why does it warrant a page quote? If anything, it should be "They fly now.", as it's an actual line from the film.

I say keep The Palpatine Saga and The Rise of Palpatine since Rey is still a Palpatine and Chris Terrio reportedly said that the Star Wars Saga was "a story of the Palpatines and Skywalkers, at least these nine movies."

Despite the fact that many fans pointed out that wasn’t really the case until TROS.

Edited by Shadao on Jan 19th 2020 at 1:53:31 AM

At EarthboundFan's suggestion, posting to pass along a situation brought up in Ask The Tropers by ~iamconstantine.

I'll quote it here to save some clicking and include pages for the person who posted the ATT entry and everyone mentioned in it so all concerned parties can be notified.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jan 19th 2020 at 11:42:03 AM

I didn't know there were complaining about the Original Trilogy as well.

I just feel like standard TV tropes pages themselves aren’t a forum where we can post long rants about what we hate like that example with Leia. I don’t want any sort of edit war, I just don’t want standard pages like Leia’s character page in this instance to devolve into massive rants.

This is true, but any controversy should be discussed here instead of the edit reasons.

Agree with Shadao.

About the additional topic... As Chris 116 says, I think the right thing should certainly be not to fill standard TV Tropes pages with open rants. However, if Chris 116 managed to re-word Accursed Fans' Leia-bashing into something fitting a TV Tropes page, I have no problem with the argument expressed.

Edited by Cieloazul on Jan 19th 2020 at 1:08:57 AM

Agreed. So besides edit comments being a no-go, what could I, and by extension others, do differently for this particular Leia example? I don’t think the trope is that out of place, but I didn’t want to bring the out of universe reason of Carrie’s death into why we don’t see more of Leia’s leadership in the field.

Let's see. I have just compared the editions done by both Accursed Fans and Chris 116. The former certainly gave out an excessively large rant, but I think the latter went similarly overboard with the so-called rewording. He erased it all and replaced it by a different argument, which is not what I call rewording.

Now, I think Accursed Fans has a point in the sense that Leia's Informed Ability trope should be built over the failed results of her command, not over a lack of onscreen command as Chris 116 claims in his edition. Leia has enough screentime as a commander to argue it is not a case of "she might be really that good, but we just don't get to see it". At the very best, I think she is case of "we admittedly get to see little of it, but what little we see is not that good", which is closer to what Accursed Fans says.

I therefore suggest simply to give Accursed Fans' point a less ranty (and preferably shorter) form. That's what I call rewording, at least.

Edited by Cieloazul on Jan 19th 2020 at 1:30:22 AM

I think Accursed Fans' main points could be made more succinctly and with less complaining. What about something like:

• Informed Attribute: In The Rise of Skywalker, her leadership abilities and strategic brilliance are talked up by the heroes; Finn says that Poe is "for damn sure" no Leia, and even Poe himself admits to Leia's corpse that he'll never be able to live up to her as a general. However, these qualities are not seen by the audience. Leia is unable to win popular support for the Resistance cause, which Lando does very quickly. Her handpicked successor while she is comatose in The Last Jedi loses the trust of the rank-and-file to the point of mutiny. After Leia recovers and resumes direct command, the Resistance is soundly defeated and nearly wiped out.

Edited by HighCrate on Jan 19th 2020 at 4:00:15 AM

I agree with High Crate that's a good description

In fact, I don't think I edited Informed Ability, since I think there was a good amount of true in that aspect.

However, I prefer the High Crate description, since it avoids unnecessary bash towards Leia.

I edited the part of Life's Work Ruined that Accursed Fans put, because I feel it totally dismiss the role and importance of Leia in The Rise of Skywalker. The current description in this trope (I don't know who put it) is very appropriate.

Edited by Ken26 on Jan 23rd 2020 at 5:01:34 AM

High Crate's example is exactly what I meant.

I looked over VoodooShark.Star Wars. I fixed and example that failed to explain the plot hole it was supposed to fix. The rest are valid but have excessive negativity that should be looked over.