Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment - Violations, misuse, and other issues

Not sure if this should go in this thread or the Moral Event Horizon cleanup thread, but the description for Peter Is the Wolf contains this sentence:

As of September 2017, the pair of Kris Overstreet and Benjamin Rodriguez split as Rodriguez's other commitments have led to various slips, and due to what appears to be Benjamin Rodriguez having crossed the Moral Event Horizon involving his response to the Charlottesville incident in Overstreet's eyes according to https://wlp.livejournal.com/142991.html and https://www.facebook.com/PeterIsTheWolf/posts/1724783390876059.

This is describing somebody else as seeing somebody as having crossed the Moral Event Horizon, but does it fall too much into Real Life usage? I'm not even sure if it's correct usage of Moral Event Horizon anyway, especially considering how problematic said trope is.

Nope, I think you're safe to cut, that's very...questionable at best.

As for The New '20s...yeah, I made it clear on ATT that I want the page locked and cleaned. It's getting out of hand and it needs to stop.

Possibly my intention for launching The New '20s at New Year of 2020 was because The New '10s was also launched at New Year of 2010.

In hindsight (heh), that should have been launched at a later year when there's a solid cultural shift. COVID was an unexpected addition to the start of the decade, and we won't know if the other recent events like the Minneapolis riots and the upcoming US elections would also make a cultural shift...

But do think that both the Main page and the Useful Notes page ought to be locked until further notice (at least until COVID and the quarantine subsides).

Also, even in The New '10s, is the Profession Wrestling examples on History Repeats necessary?

Edited by alnair20aug93 on May 31st 2020 at 9:35:50 PM

I agree that both pages, along with Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic should be cleaned and locked until the pandemic has subsided. Too much potential for fearmongering and misinformation, as I believe the COVID-19 page was also reported in ATT once before.

Edited by thecarolinabull01 on May 31st 2020 at 9:37:41 AM

As I said on the ATT thread, I don't believe this is an appropriate place to deal with that page, because frankly there is no real justification for a Useful Notes page on a decade existing five months into that decade. The thing really just ought to be cut.

This thread was where the pandemic was discussed before.

Edited by costanton11 on May 31st 2020 at 9:01:11 AM

To clarify, I'm saying that The New '20s should be cut, not the pandemic page.

Not sure why you think a sledgehammer is the best tool when we have scissors. The "works made/set in this decade" section has no major problems (at least when compared to the other decades' pages.)

Maybe a NREP time limit would work as well.

My feeling is less that the page is beyond saving and more that it really shouldn't have been created yet, so there's no reason why we need to keep it.

I say we trim it first and if there's anything substantial left afterward, we can keep the page.

How about we remove the tropes, but keep the works page.

If we have to, I guess we could remove the tropes until 2021. But I have to say, cutting or locking would be going too far. I don't get why people are so offended by the page in its current state or want to cut it, The New '10s was also launched on the first day of the decade and performed fine until late in the decade, what changed in people so much. Admittedly, the 2010s didn't have the pandemic, but I'd say the fault is with the people who add ROCEJ-breaking examples, not the page itself, which is about 70% good content about works, a list of works taking place in the decade and is releasing in it which is perfectly fine content and was in fact fine at the start of the decade (I may try to expand it).

I don't often post here, but I had to let my mind out from the ATT, because I think people are suggesting ideas that feel too drastic.

Edited by Piterpicher on Jun 1st 2020 at 12:05:57 PM

2010 was sort of the Wild West days of this site, though. I'm troubled by that being used as a precedent.

I can see how cutting might be too far, but why is locking "too far"? The page is suffering from constant misuse, shoehorns, and ROCEJ violations. If the page isn't at least temporarily locked to wait out the COVID situation, the problem will come back because people are utterly obsessed with troping this fucking virus. If you don't believe me, go to the YMMV sections of a few random works and see how long it takes to find a Harsher in Hindsight example about COVID.

This is a page about the decade- cultural changes, and the like. Not "Shit that happened in mid 2020".

Because most of the page is used for works that take place during the time and works made during he time, which is valid content used on other decades and in fact The New '10s started with it? I agree that people are obsessed with the virus (I saw some examples of those hindsight stuff too), but I don't know if it's worth it to lock the page to prevent people from adding to the 70% of valid content. If we have to lock, maybe make a sandbox for those works and have the main The New '20s article updated weekly or something.

And yes, I know the 2010s were a different, largely worse time (many style changes are a plus). I am just shocked attitudes changed this much in 10 years (the early 2010s felt so much different than what's going on now), and have an anxiety for how we may change in the next 50 (since that's my average life expectancy, probably ironic to mention it right now, but still).

Edited by Piterpicher on Jun 1st 2020 at 6:59:06 PM

Like I said at ATT, people can get the page updated through the locked pages. The benefit of the works list doesn't outweigh the cost of letting people run wild on it.

This page skeeves me out anyway for other reasons besides COVID. I think people are getting way too overzealous about troping this barely-existent decade and need to back away from the editing button for a while not only to calm down about updating it constantly but also to put their energy into editing more worthwhile pages. I've never touched this thing and besides cleanup I don't want to, since it feels very strange to me to start editing a page for the decade we haven't lived through yet and it disturbs me that some people are so eager to do so to the point of ignoring common sense or the ROCEJ.

At this point I'm for cutting UsefulNotes.The New Twenties entirely, and for cutting the trope list on Main.The New Twenties and locking it. The latter is at least useful for cataloguing media made in or set during the decade, even if it will have to be done through the locked pages thread.

As stated, it's too early in the decade to make many meaningful comments on its cultural shifts or hallmark events. Instead these pages (and the COVID article to some extent) have quickly devolved into a preachy "hot-take" political pamphlet. Basically, Righting Great Wrongs applied to real life.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Jun 1st 2020 at 10:05:42 AM

Well, getting it locked could also likely result in edit requests for works being given daily, likely resulting in mods getting deluged with edit requests to add single works (the page's already been edited 200+ times). Luckily some of the works made in the decade indexes have been split off so that's less work there, but still.

I still feel annoyed at 2020s people getting this hasty, overzealous and ignorant of ROCEJ at editing the page, but it is the current society, I guess (but I really hope the situation improves in 2030). For now, I recommend we lock The New '20s and maybe cut UsefulNotes.The New Twenties until the 2021. We could put an editable list of works on Sandbox.The New Twenties with a link to it on the main article and have the current list of works updated weekly by moderators, to prevent them from getting deluged. If we need to do something, that should hopefully be enough.

Edited by Piterpicher on Jun 1st 2020 at 7:20:46 PM

Look, I'll just be blunt about it, I have no qualms about forcing rulebreakers to go to the locked pages thread and be told "no" by a mod and forced to stop. The page gets tons of edits a day but I'm willing to bet most of those edits will be cut when we start our cleanup. The mods won't have to do any extra updating work besides adding works to the list. Hell, other updates could be sent through us first, like with locked Nightmare Fuel pages.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 1st 2020 at 1:26:12 PM

I have no qualms about forcing rulebreakers to stop and potentially be told on the locked pages thread that they should not bring up irrelevant controversies on that page and they should stop either, but I did when it comes to legit editors and mod work, as I wanted to make a solution that does the job but doesn't ultimately cause too much work or discourage actual constructive edits. Admittedly, only 6 edits out of 15 which were made over the last 11 days were about the works, so perhaps the edit requests wouldn't be overbearing (and the sandbox can always be made if needed). I have accepted the idea of locking the The New '20s article and cutting UsefulNotes.The New Twenties until 2021 (which I really hope doesn't have to be extended).

Edited by Piterpicher on Jun 1st 2020 at 7:47:19 PM

Not too much to add that hasn't been said; I am in favor of cutting UsefulNotes.The New Twenties and Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic and cutting the tropes from Main.The New Twenties and locking it.

There is plenty of cleanup work to do on this wiki without allowing people to continuously create more of it with pages full of hot-button and, frankly, off-mission content.

I'm in for cutting UsefulNotes.The New Twenties and locking + removing the tropes from The New '20s, but I think UsefulNotes.Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic should stay (although if it's problematic, it should be locked).

Yeah that's my op on this too.

So, just to be clear, the consensus is to lock Main.The New Twenties until at least COVID blows over, and to cut UsefulNotes.The New Twenties until a later date.

Edited by Kappaclystica on Jun 1st 2020 at 4:35:12 AM

Not sure this is quite the right thread, but

Y'know all those "and that's all we'll say about that" potholes that come up around any mildly contentious topic? It's been decided that those are bad and need to be scrubbed.

I've been removing them as I run across them, but... there's a lot.

Agreed. Lock The New '20s until COVID blows over (and possibly Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pandemic if necessary). Don't really know about UsefulNotes.The New Twenties, but if others think it should be cut, then it probably needs to be cut. Or at least locked until later in the decade.

Edited by thecarolinabull01 on Jun 1st 2020 at 5:25:20 AM