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Needs Help: Big Bad Slippage

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Deadlock Clock: Aug 22nd 2018 at 11:59:00 PM
IndirectActiveTransport You Give Me Fever from Chicago Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
You Give Me Fever
#1: Feb 3rd 2018 at 1:15:58 PM

Needs help at the very least. The Big Bad, that's the one who is behind the conflict in the story. If there are several conflicts running through the story with several sources behind them, that's Big Bad Ensemble. If there is one conflict with multiple equally guilty parties, that Big Bad Duumvirate. If there is a character who is clearly evil or at least antagonistic but incidental to the conflict driving the story, well, that's Villain of Another Story, which had it's own subtropes like Greater-Scope Villain. If an antagonist incidental to the big bad's conflict ends up opposing the protagonist, that can possibly fall under Arc Villain or Lone Wolf Boss. If the big bad is not the main threat, there is Dragon-in-Chief and The Heavy for that. If the Big Bad is not the final threat, there is Dragon Ascendant, Dragon Their Feet, Final Boss, Giant Space Flea from Nowhere, etc to cover that. If the protagonist's most hated enemy is not behind the conflict, there's Arch-Enemy.

To summarize, tropes are flexible. I don't like this trope page's name(or really, that it even exists) but I can accept the fact that the big bad was not always evil. Fine. That the big bad wasn't evil when they started the conflict, seems a little to specific but okay. That the story possibly began before a conflict developed. But antagonist driving a conflict and antagonist responsible for the conflict are not the same thing.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: Rossiu is the only antagonist with a face for a long time and is making the situation for the new nation worse, but is not in fact, the big bad. No attempt is even made to make him look like such. Lord Genome would have been a better candidate, as he's closer in definition to the big bad. If the story had ended with his introduction we'd have no reason to think he wasn't, but as it the story didn't and he's not the big bad either. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann has a Big Bad Duumvirate of WellIntentionedExtremists. It shouldn't be on this page in any capacity, barring future releases that reveal previously unknown details about the antagonists.

The Flash: Zoom is not the big bad, there was already a conflict going which the protagonist was involved in. At best he can a big bad of an ensemble, but the entry does not elaborate how that happens.

Runaways: Gibborim are the big bads of the comic. The Wilders are merely the arch enemies of the kids.

The Transformers: Lost Light: Megatron may have performed a Heel–Face Turn, but he's still the reason behind the conflict, as Getaway would have only been a whiny shipmate if Megatron's very presence and past reputation had not caused him to slowly slide into evil.

Megamind: Megamind is still the big bad. He just has a change of heart and tries to fix a problem he created.

Maleficent: Shouldn't the kind who first tried to invade the fairy moors be the big bad? If not for him there would have been no incentive for Maleficent's human friend to betray her.

Thor: No, and no. Anyone who knows Norse Mythology can tell you right away Loki didn't start the conflict with the Frost Giants and only joined "their" side because the Aesir punished him far more than he deserved to be. Okay, in the film he's not quite as sympathetic as in the myths, but everything else still stands. He's still participating in the same conflict.

Shadows of the Apt: Uh not really. The villain of the later half only became a villain because of a villain from the earlier half. That she outlasts him is besides the point.

More Loki, twice in a row!

As you can see, this isn't just a matter of cleaning up the examples, as the majority of the examples on the page don't hold up. The first one, Fairy Tail, seems to work but then you have to go all the way to Gormenghast for another. I don't even think the page should exist, I've already mentioned Slowly Slipping Into Evil, and there is also Jumping Off the Slippery Slope. I'm sure most people here will disagree with me on a cut and or merger, but at the very least it needs help.

That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes
bellemoonflower Since: Feb, 2015
#2: Mar 18th 2018 at 2:25:39 PM

The Flash: Zoom is not the big bad, there was already a conflict going which the protagonist was involved in. At best he can a big bad of an ensemble, but the entry does not elaborate how that happens.

[up][up] This isn't how things play out. Zoom is introduced as a minor side character and develops into Wally West's Arch-Enemy. He is not connected to any other conflicts, especially when he was introduced.

SeptimusHeap MOD from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3: Aug 19th 2018 at 1:10:47 AM

Clock is set.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#4: Aug 23rd 2018 at 10:26:07 PM

Clock expired; closing.

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