Trope distinctions - do these make sense?

But we have Benevolent Conspiracy for wholly good ones.

The way you describe Evil Running Good and Conspiracy Redemption doesn't make them sound distinct either.

Well, Evil Running Good doesn't need to involve The Conspiracy, so it's distinct by way of its definition being broader than the other two tropes. You might be on to something with Benevolent Conspiracy and Conspiracy Redemption, however; the former at least has a TLP draft associated with it (dating to 2013), but Conspiracy Redemption is old (dates back to 2007), and so it might be a victim of bad definition-construction, like several tropes of similar age that were made before the original YKTTW system became the norm for trope creation.

Edited by MarqFJA on Nov 13th 2018 at 6:24:17 PM

Does it mean... TRS time?

For figuring out what Conspiracy Redemption should be? I believe so.

What's the difference between In Their Own Image and Restart the World?

The former involves Time Travel, the latter does not.

Some of the examples do mention "time loops" or some kind of "world cycle", but most of them simply says that they want to restart the world, without saying anything relating to time. That's what gets me confused.

IMHO, In Their Own Image's description is overly specific for its name; I've said the phrase be used in the context of (re)shaping a character, an organization or a place (e.g. a country) in your own image. As written, however, it's functionally a subtrope of Restart the World.

My suggestion is to broaden In Their Own Image to what I've described, at which point there would be only occasional overlap with Restart the World.

Edited by MarqFJA on Nov 18th 2018 at 6:55:42 PM

I'd like it, too, but that change sounds major.

Then take the suggestion to TRS.

I feel we need one of these for Anti-Role Model and Deliberately Bad Example. Both articles mention the other, clarifying that the first is an example to the audience, while the second is a foil to a sympathetic character. However, some entries on Deliberately Bad Example don't specify who they are a foil to, and I feel the page image on Anti-Role Model doesn't help it because it's an ironic, comedic example. I'm not sure if they're being misused, but an entry on Trope Distinctions could help.

^ Not seeing the problem with ZCE on Deliberately Bad Example. Image problems can be handled via Image Pickin.

The Dragon Age II entry seems to be a foil for an entire community, or maybe a way of governing. The Breath of the Wild and Homestuck examples might fit on Anti-Role Model better because they seem to be about teaching the audience, however subtly.

(Have this one been asked before?)

Loose Canon and Schrödinger's Canon seems to be very similar. What does separate the two?

Well, I couldn't figure it out from the descriptions of each trope, but the more recent one has a TLP draft where the question did get asked. Here's the answer that I found:

EDIT: Added a line that wasn't in the original TLP comment to separate the first two paragraphs, since it's still bugged out as of this writing.

Edited by MarqFJA on Nov 24th 2018 at 4:16:09 PM

"Intention". We can't always know that, right?

And the way you described Loose Canon makes it sounds similar to Filler...

A Filler is canon as long as it doesn't get banished from continuity. It's not loose or ambiguous in any way.

Loose Canon and Schrödinger's Canon have Laconic/ pages that are very similar. I can take this to the Laconic/ discussion thread...

This is what I'll propose (and what could be brought up in the appropriate thread, tbh):

What's the difference of Breaking Old Trends and Nothing Is the Same Anymore?

^ I could think of two points but am not sure:

1. Time scope: BOT only applies from the third season onward where trends are firmly established. NITSA doesn't have this restriction.
2. Irrevocable: BOT shakes things up but it doesn't mean it cannot go back to established paths. NITSA incidents are points of no return.

Edited by eroock on Jan 27th 2019 at 1:39:08 PM

I'm checking I've got the right trope to avoid Square Peg Round Trope here, but are these correct for the settings (if I add them to an entry):

• Anachronism Stew: A work set in November 1995 has Me Too! protestors, a Chevrolet Corvette design from 1998, and Katy Perry "Wide Awake"
• Anachronic Order: Story 3 is set in 1995, but comes after Story 1 set in 2006.
• Webcomic Time: The timeframe of a work of serial media is much smaller than the time it took to publish it. Basically, the real and in-universe time scales are out of sync due to production time.
  • The work is set in February 1995, but it took 3 years of real-world time to move to November 1995 (In-Universe the work covers from February 1995 to December 1996).
• Purely Aesthetic Era: The medieval era seen in The Mighty Magiswords treats the anachronisms as Played for Laughs.
• Retro Universe: It's not an Alternate Universe. It's not Alternate History. It's not a Fictional Earth. It's like our Earth, but maybe takes some liberties with geography for the sake of a better story.

Are these correct definitions?

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Jan 27th 2019 at 4:23:57 AM

Anachronism Stew is technically correct but the example you give is actually the subtrope Present-Day Past, as it's mostly about stuff from the present day creeping into the past. A better example would be:

• A work set in November 1995 has Me Too! protestors, a Chevrolet Corvette design from 1978, all set to the tunes of Elvis.

Retro Universe is incorrect. Retro Universe is explicitly an Alternate Universe that resembles a particular time period in history, often one where a specific time period never ended or went out of style. It has nothing to do with Artistic License – Geography.

The other are correct.

I hadn't realized that - I wrongly thought Anachronism Stew was future things in a Period Piece.

Retro Universe has some relation to Frozen in Time, am I right? Would Aubrey-Maturin which lists both Comic-Book Time and Frozen in Time (1813 on a loop for the next 10 books) technically be a Retro Universe?

I know that Tropes Are Flexible, and could Retro Universe be a Sister Trope to Frozen in Time (it does say See Also: Retro Universe on the page itself) but I wasn't sure what would be a good re-write of the trope description, since it could do with improvement, but I'm not sure how to make it a good enough article.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Jan 27th 2019 at 8:52:09 PM

This was brought up in TLP: I need to know the difference of Sketchy Successor, Sucksessor and Inadequate Inheritor.

Retro Universe is an intentional, stylistic choice. It's about a world or universe that has a very retro flavor in terms of visual styling and technology, without necessarily being literally set in that specific era. It's also usually justified in at least a handwavy way by having speculative fiction elements. Think Cassette Futurism or Steampunk for specific categories.

I'm a little confused about what Frozen in Time is, but it's very closely related to Comic-Book Time. As best as I can tell, it's when a story remains set in the same era for longer in-story than it should logically take to leave that era. As opposed to Comic-Book Time, where a long-running story is always set in "the present" and they update the styles and technology even though the characters don't age. But then the page also lists a lot of examples about adaptations of a work always being set in the same time period regardless of when they were made, which seems different...

Edited by naturalironist on Jan 28th 2019 at 5:44:46 AM