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Wiki Development Project: Namespace Cleanup and Configuration

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Hi, folks! We're currently in the middle of an extended wiki development project that will add some nifty tools to the moderation kit (and some bells and whistles for tropers as well). While a full list of what's coming is outside the scope of this topic, there is one very specific thing that needs community involvement and feedback: the namespace configuration system.

In a Nutshell

We're changing namespaces from informal components that anyone can add (you can make an article in the "Glurkbrgl" namespace if you want, just by editing it) to a formal list of allowed values. This list can be added to and offers additional controls, such as the ability to set which style sheet is used by articles in the namespace, which page type is the default, the icon for the namespace tab bar, and how editing and article creation work.

    Details 

Namespace Configuration System

  • Namespaces will be itemized in a database table.
  • There will be a php page where anyone can view the list and the settings for each namespace, and mods can edit them.
  • The configuration system will have (roughly) the following attributes:
    • Name: (Main, YMMV, etc.) This will include the canonical capitalization of the namespace (see below).
    • Editing Status: This will be a selection from a list of possible restrictions, from "Open" (anyone can edit/create articles) to "Require TLP" (article creation must go through Trope Launch Pad) to "Closed" (nobody can edit or create articles), and a few more.
    • Page Type: The default page type to assign to articles in the namespace (a work, a creator, a trope, a subpage, etc.).
    • Style: Main, Darth Wiki, Sugar Wiki, etc.
    • Auto-Index: Whether the namespace behaves like normal or is automatically indexed, such as in Laconic Wiki.
    • Icon: Choose the icon that appears in the namespace tab bar in the header of wiki articles.
  • When anyone requests a wiki article (HTTP GET to pmwiki.php), the namespace part of the URL will be checked and forced to the proper capitalization. This will prevent things like "Ymmv", which break wiki functionality.
  • When anyone tries to create or edit an article, the namespace configuration will be checked to determine if that action is allowed. If creation is blocked, a suitable message will be displayed. If editing is blocked, then the article will display as locked.

What We Need

What we need from the community is agreement on which namespaces should be kept and which should be discarded. The wiki has accumulated a lot of cruft due to the free-for-all nature of namespace creation, and we want to start with as clean a slate as possible.

For reference:

How This Will Work

If we decide not to keep a namespace, any articles in it should either be cut or moved to a more suitable namespace. Any such namespaces that have remaining articles when the new system goes live will be set to "Closed", so that nobody can make new ones and the existing ones will be automatically locked.

For all remaining namespaces, we need to populate the initial settings: page type, editing status, and style. Note that many of these are already known and configured, so we'll carry those over — there's no need to renegotiate the status of Main or YMMV, for example. I'm mainly talking about the odder ones like, say, Castle.

After the system goes live, if anyone tries to add an article that isn't in an approved namespace, the attempt will be blocked. Requesting new namespaces would be done in the Locked Pages topic or some other topic we create specifically for that purpose.

Rules and Procedures

  • The working list of namespaces to load into the configuration system will be stored in Namespace Cleanup Project.
  • Any user may bring up a namespace that they think should be removed or given special handling.
  • If there is significant immediate consensus, we'll approve it and any required actions (cleanup, transplants) can begin.
  • If consensus is not clear, then we will use a crowner to collect votes.

We will also answer general questions about the system in this topic, but we will keep it focused specifically on the namespace project. Off-topic thumps will be used if needed.

    Frequently Asked Questions 
  • Q: Are we changing any media namespaces (Film, Western Animation, Manhua, etc.)?
    A: No, we are not. That's not in the scope of the project; the intent is to configure all media namespaces as they currently exist.

  • Q: What are we doing with examples subpages (like Castle.Tropes Ato D)?
    A: We want to clean those up. Check out this post to see some ideas, and this Google Drive doc for a list of all such articles.
    Note: We can't just merge them back together, as most were hard split for size to begin with.

  • Q: So what should we focus on?
    A: That's a great question! We're looking mainly at namespaces that have fewer than 40 articles in them, and that are not medium namespaces. In other words, let's start from the bottom of the list. In particular, let's get rid of one-off namespaces that aren't being used for actual trope content.

  • Q: Is there a list of all namespaces that are being used for trope example subpages?
    A: Thanks for asking. Yes, it's here. Note that some media namespaces were caught in the query.

Edited by nombretomado on Jan 5th 2020 at 11:39:34 AM

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#777: Nov 12th 2023 at 6:41:03 AM

Since it mostly just lists links to other pages, "index" seems a reasonable enough default page type for DerivativeWorks/ to me. The only time it should be listed as just "subpage" is again if it contains one of those "common tropes in adaptation list" or "Tropes in adaptations that don't have a work page yet".

Something like that

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Nov 12th 2023 at 10:43:01 PM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
#778: Nov 12th 2023 at 6:42:30 AM

I think maybe it should have that, would seem like a cool idea

AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#779: Dec 29th 2023 at 12:11:44 AM

I've slightly updated the page and removed Disney/, Light Novel/, and Machinima/

If we are still using this cleanup page anyways.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Gamerknowitall Since: Feb, 2024
#780: Feb 19th 2024 at 4:10:56 PM

In an Ask The Tropers post that I have made, I have pointed out that I particularly didn’t like how biased the trope seemed. For example, the trope feels like it would fit better on a Trivia or YMMV page than a trope. The name itself could be confused with examples from films that have a higher rating rather than having gratuitous objectionable content, which is what the trope is supposed to be about. For example:

  • PAW Patrol: The Mighty Movie is rated PG for "mild action and peril" Considering it's based on a show for preschoolers (and the first PAW Patrol movie was rated G) this might mean the G rating is near extinction.

I personally disagree with the rating, but there was no gratuitous objectionable content in the film. Which goes against the trope’s purpose.

Also, the name, in my opinion, needs to be changed because the name itself is biased towards Hollywood because there are non-MPA and non-American examples of the trope on the page, or it will apply itself towards the MPA when, in reality, it is a foreign film, so it doesn’t apply to the MPA. For example:

  • Topsy-Turvy would bore kids, but if you want to make it G, all you have to do is cut an optional scene with topless (and fleetingly bottomless) prostitutes. One character also uses the word "fucking" which was not in general use as a swear word at the time the movie is set (late 19th century). He immediately lampshades it by saying "Pardon my Anglo-Saxon."

The film was made in the UK, so it would be more accurate to say a U rating rather than a G rating (the film is rated 12 in the UK). Also, I am pretty sure that a troper applied it to the MPA because of the trope name.

AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
CanuckMcDuck1 Anime Guy from Rhode Island Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: Hey, how you doin', let me whisper in your ear
Anime Guy
#782: Mar 8th 2024 at 4:21:36 PM

There’s a Quotes page for Pet Homosexual, which now redirects to Gay Best Friend. Thing is, there’s a completely different set of quotes for the Gay Best Friend page.

What should I do? Should I just move the couple of quotes from the Pet page to Gay Best Friend or cut them altogether?

I’m sorry, but you have Stage 9 Animes.
bwburke94 Friends forevermore from uǝʌɐǝɥ Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Friends forevermore
#783: Mar 8th 2024 at 5:05:00 PM

It feels like the quotes should be merged in.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
CanuckMcDuck1 Anime Guy from Rhode Island Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: Hey, how you doin', let me whisper in your ear
Anime Guy
#784: Mar 8th 2024 at 5:54:24 PM

How do you cut the page after the quotes are moved then?

I’m sorry, but you have Stage 9 Animes.
bwburke94 Friends forevermore from uǝʌɐǝɥ Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Friends forevermore
#785: Mar 8th 2024 at 6:14:43 PM

Feels like the cut reason should be "quotes page for redirect" or whatnot. No reason to over-explain it.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
AnoneMouseJr Since: Nov, 2010
#786: Mar 17th 2024 at 9:23:50 PM

Having recently been reminded that the Trope Entry Template exists via another post, it occurs to me: shouldn't that be in the Administrivia namespace instead of Main, since its page type is already listed as "admin"?

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#788: Apr 4th 2024 at 2:53:59 PM

Not sure if this is the right place to take this, but I just ran across the page Manhua.Old Master Q while doing wick cleaning, and the blurb says it was a newspaper comic strip first. Should this get moved to the Comic Strip namespace, then?

bwburke94 Friends forevermore from uǝʌɐǝɥ Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Friends forevermore
#789: Apr 4th 2024 at 4:13:28 PM

Quite possibly, but we might need more information.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
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