Legion of Super-Heroes

I'm decided to give the Legion of Super-Heroes it's own thread because they have a very dedicated fan base and a rather deep and complicated mythology.

I read Adventure Comics #352, which was the first appearance of the Fatal Five. It was good to see a story in a Mort Weisinger edited comic that didn't rely on Superdickery to drive the plot forward. Thanks, Jim Shooter.

edited 2nd Jan '17 8:26:06 AM by DS9guy

Agree. Early Legion stories sure were plagued with high levels of Superdickery, almost to the point where the Legion come off as unlikable, exclusive douchebags who tend to mislead their comrads and hardly do anything heroic in their stories . . . sometimes I wonder if the original pitch for Teen Titans Go was meant to be a Superdickery cartoon where the Legion are one of many supporting cast members, specifically to show where Superman got his sociopathic dickness from . . . why isn't that a show? That would be hilarious seeing how positive that one Batman The Brave and The Bold episode was.

But yeah, Jim Shooter is a true gift to cosmic themed comic book stories.

In Grant Morrison’s Doom Patrol, there was a member of the Brotherhood of Dada called The Quiz. She had every power you hadn’t thought of yet and it would go away once you thought of it. Well, I know how to fix that: Since this is this the DC universe, have her time travel to 30th century and meet the Legion. That would make her powerless.

That whole “no member can have the same power” rule did encourage the writers to be creative in terms of superpowers. Bouncing Boy, Matter Eater Lad, Triplicate Girl, etc.

Jim Shooter is when LSH got good. I think. I haven't read anything before that, so I guess I wouldn't know. No, scratch that. I did read one issue. The one where Computo first shows up. It... wasn't terrible, but compared to everything that came after, it just didn't grab my interest. Shooter basically turned LSH into a Marvel book, and it was every bit as awesome as that sounds. Probably one of the best SA runs that DC put out.

But seriously, the Legion is awesome and they deserve far more attention and renown than they've got. It has everything I want in a comic. A kickass Mega-Team of interesting and varied characters, ample Character Development, high-concept and often epic plots, and some awesome action. What more could you ask for?

Well, I guess you could ask for more Arm Fall Off Boy...

Also, jeez. This thread started back in January and we're only 4 posts in? When I said they need more attention and renown, I didn't think they needed it this bad.

edited 7th Jan '18 10:56:14 AM by kkhohoho

SA?

Silver Age.

Dawnstar is my favorite useful useless heroine XD

Eh. I don't hate her or anything, and they did some good stories with her, but... she's a sterotype. Plain and simple. Braids, Beads and Buckskins all the way. And seeing as my Theater teacher drilled into my noggin that all stereotypes should be cleansed with fire, I'm understandably a bit miffed about that sort of thing.

Look Blatant Stereotype or not

I have soft spot for Dawnstar

I checked Superboy #217, where Tyroc makes his first appearance. Never do they say that Marzal is an island where all the black people live in the 30th century, just that it is "populated entirely by a black race who want nothing to do with an outside world". That may have been what editor Murray Boltinoff would have wanted to explain why we never saw black people but writer Cary Bates knew better. Plus, we later find out that Marzal is actually like Brigadoon (island that disappears and reappears for periods of time) and that all the residents are decedents of Africans who took over a slave ship, hence the xenophobia. Now that doesn't make any of this less cringeworthy. It's just good to get the facts straight.

Besides, Jacques Foccart, the second Invisible Kid, and his sister later prove black people do indeed exist outside of Marzal since they come from what used to be Côte d'Ivoire with Jacques having a stereotypical French accent to back this up. I'm just not sure if there were any crowd shots with black people in them between the appearances of Tyroc and Jacques.

edited 10th Jan '18 6:46:39 AM by DS9guy

I've known the Legion through the cartoon and the JLA/Legion superhero movie. As someone, not thta familiar with the comics, where should I start?

The Great Darkness Saga, fullstop. If that doesn't hook you, nothing will. Linkara's also covering it early next year on AT 4 W, so there's that too.

edited 18th Dec '17 10:21:13 AM by kkhohoho

Can’t wait to see that.

x2 As far as where to start, well I kind of use this blog as a good guide for where to start reading.

But the thing about LOS is that it kind of have different continuities which allows new readers to jump in at any point. But here is an abridged for what can cover your interest.

If you wanna go back to the very beginning (IE Silver Age): read their debut in Adventures Comic and only the stories written by Jim Shooter. Those stories are good representation of the team during the early days.

If you wanna just read it for the really good stories (including the Greak Darkness Saga): read the entirety of the Levitz Giffen Era. And maybe also 5YL.

If you wanna read something that explores the groups origin outside of the ol’ continuity: read the LOS first reboot. A lot of 90s era DC Comics tend to be good, so no loss in checking those books out.

If you are an anti authority teenager who wants an edgy book showing off how teens like us are better than the adults who know better: read the Threeboot . . . yeah I have issues with this reboot of the Legion. But that is pretty much the reason why I read said book back in high school (god was I stupid then thinking that was great storytelling).

If you only want to read the (as of now) current stories but don’t want to go back prior to the new millanium (or the Threeboot) to get refresh on the team: then read Superman: Secret Origins (the second issue is a retelling of their debut comic), Superman & The Legion of Superheroes, and the Final Crisis Tie In called Legion of Three Worlds to get familar with the characters. Then you could just read all the LOS books after Legion of Three Worlds.

Those are my suggestions.

I just realized the Legion is about to turn 60. April's when they hit the big 6-0. Hard to believe. Hell, I think it predates Star Trek by eight years. Talk about an accomplishment.

Oh, and as long as I'm here, just a reminder that Linkara's covering The Great Darkness Saga today. It's gonna be killer.

When's the last time you said "Long live the Legion" aloud?

Never, actually. I don't know anyone that did, to be honest.

Anyway, I finally finished the 80's Levitz run, and not only is it one of the best Legion runs ever, it's probably one of the best comics runs I've ever read. It's right up there with Claremont's X-Men and Wolfman's Titans in terms of quality and general style, and I think in some ways it's even better than them. All three of them are brilliant and the other two lasted over twice as long than Levitz', (though seven years is nothing to sneeze at,) but Levitz's storytelling just stands up a bit better nowadays. Mind you, it wasn't perfect. Some subplots can be a bit meandering and maybe go on for too long, and there can be a few dull spots, but you could say the same of Claremont and Wolfman too. The bottomline is Levitz' run is a classic and deserves more attention than it gets, because it's amazeballs.

Anyway, with that under my belt, I can finally delve into one of the most notorious eras of Legion history to date: Five Years Later. Hailed by some as a Dark Age masterpiece and scorned by many others for being a Dark Age trainwreck with little middleground, it's one of the most infamous Legion runs ever written, to the point where some like to pretend it never happened. But I guess I'll just have to see for myself.

I have been trying to get through the 5yl era for like 3 years. its just so dark and boring

Levitz is famous for developing (or at least formalizing) the Levitz Paradigm style of comic book plotting, in which the writer has multiple plotlines going at once, each one getting an increase in page-space and importance as the previous plotlines are resolved. It's also called the Levitz Grid, because he'd plot out a years worth of stories on a grid, indicating when each plot would end and the next move into main prominence. It's an efficient and effective way to write a super-hero comics series, especially a team book with a lot of characters.

Maybe he formalized it, but I don't think he invented it. I could've sworn Claremont and Wolfman were basically doing the same thing years before Levitz started doing it. Though I'm not sure if it's a style of plotting you really see that much nowadays. Not with all of the focus on longer story arcs and trades.

Yeah, it's most likely that Levitz just formalized something that a lot of writers did more loosely (or haphazardly, as the case may be). He, Claremont, and Wolfman were contemporaries, and kind of structured their respective books in the same way.

Pretty much. Those three were, for better or worse, (though mostly better,) some of the most defining and popular runs of the 80's, and a lot of what we consider standard practice in comics comes from them. They're basically the Holy Trinity of the 80's.

Started reading V4. At 7 issues, it still might be just a bit early for me to give it a real verdict, but I think it's finally starting to click. Make no mistake, this is not your daddy's legion. Not to say that the earlier stuff wasn't serious and that it couldn't get dark at times, but V4 is purely a product of the Dark Age. Not that that's a bad thing.The difference between V4 and a lot of Dark Age stuff is that it actually understand what Watchmen was trying to do and successfully replicates that ('artsy' nature, nine panel grid, double meanings, etc.) while still doing its' own thing. It's about the Legion having to come to grips with a darker and more cynical universe, and if their brand of idealism can stand up in the darkest of times. Granted, it can be somewhat confusing especially early on, but I think that by this point, it's finally starting to come together. If it keeps on like this, it might even end up being something special.

It's funny how many big time comics fans tend to not being into the Legion. I guess it's because by their inherent nature, they feel pretty disconnected from the larger DCU. They are kinda like X-Men, this huge, richly developed smaller world with long and convoluted history existing in its own little corner, but without the name recognition.

I've only been slowly getting into the Legion, but so far, I lov them. I've mostly experienced them through Superman (is there a big overlap between fandoms) and not diminish what is clearly a sucessful franchise in its own right, but I think they work great in context to him.

The thing about Superman is, he's clearly supposed to be a big deal, the biggest deal really, but it's hard to actually show this due to (perfectly sensible, really) constraints of the genre and him working within a larger DC universe. He can't forever defeat his villains, most superheroes came to be independently of him and while he can prevent the world from getting worse, it is hard to show that he made it better. But Legion shows that even thousands of years in the future, he is regarded as a legend and inspiring people. A lot of the Legion after all, are aliens like him, who don't actually have superpowers in regards to their species, they just came where their powers are special to do good. And more simply, as a club of friends from Clark's childhood, they are like Krypto. A perfectly normal, human thing in Superman proportions.

While both franchises clearly can and had worked on their own, I think there is something to miss without the connection and while I understand the problems it brought, I can't entirely blame Johns for wanting to bring it back (and that's the only Silver Age thing he brought back I won't forever give him shit for).

EDIT: I, uh, considered asking before writing this post down and I probably should had. Hope nobody minds.

Edited by strejda on Jun 28th 2018 at 12:34:39 PM

Whenever Superboy goes to the future, how come the Legion never thinks that bringing him here is inherently dangerous because if he dies then, the future will be Ret-Gone because he won't be able to save the world a thousand times over? They should at least make a contingency like the ring sending him back in case his actual life is in danger

Also how does Superboy/Superman deal exactly with the Timey-Wimey Ball of knowing his future endeavors? Is it like Doctor Who where he forgets some things to keep history intact?

The first one... yeah, you've got a point. Then again, he is invulnerable. Even more so Pre-Crisis. Maybe they just thought they didn't need to worry about that bit.

As for the second one, it's established that Superboy's memory is partially erased when he goes back to the present. He remembers the Legion and the gist of what happened, but he doesn't remember anything that could change the future in any major way.