Writer Support Group

All the time; I sometimes map out sequels for books I haven't written yet. It can become a problem when I start trying to railroad my story in the direction of my daydreams.

Whoops - just a heads up, that was a question for *5, but yeah, the railroading is usually what undoes the whole point of daydreaming and enjoying the idea.

Not all the time, but sometimes, yeah; I'll imagine a scene with one character or another that will only happen later down the line, while meanwhile I'm still writing a scene that still takes place in the early part of the story before shit really starts getting down. In fact, it's kind of like this with the entire book, because the story I really want to tell is the hypothetical second book of a duology that I've barely gotten off the ground. It stars a group of immortals and takes place in an apocalyptic Days of Future Past scenario, but in order for any of that to make sense, I need to write the current book I'm working on, which is about the immortals in the present day and explains just how things got to the point they will be in the second book while also introducing the cast and making the readers care about them. It's just that I really want to be writing the kickass Post Apocalyptic Fantasy novel rather than this very suburban Suburban Fantasy book, but unless I want there to be even more flashbacks than there are already going to be in Book Two, then I need to get Book One written up to pave the way, so to speak.

edited 9th Aug '16 1:37:54 PM by kkhohoho

Ah-ha! There's your problem: you don't enjoy the scene you're currently writing. It's not that the story or the schedule is an obligation, but that you've been writing it out as such a logical sequence of events that you've convinced yourself you're doing too well to jump ahead. So now you're painstakingly trying to trudge through the boring bits to get to the parts you actually want to write, and you're telling yourself that a 'true writer' could make anything interesting, so obviously you're just a little tired and shou take a break and oops it's been a week and you've got nothing done.

Part of you is very bored with the scene you are currently working on. Your new task is to retool it, skip ahead and add the important bits as a flashback, cut to a few minutes later in the scene so you can skip the obligatory establishing narrative, or keep trying to slog through it. I'm saying this because I do literally the same thing (so I'm biased, be aware), and it's always the same: I can't even muster the interest to daydream about it. Why the hell would I be giddy to sit and write the thing out? Nah, I'm gonna procrastinate until the Inspiration Fairy hits me.

...God damn it, you're right. I don't want to be writing this boilerplate POS; I want to be writing a Goddamn Bad Ass Post Apocalyptic Fantasy novel, that's what I want to do! What I'm going to do is retell the story; start things off in the second book and make it the first and only book, while flashbacking to important events or moments that add to the characters. I'm also going to be adding in a new protagonist that doesn't know anything about what happened in the now non-existent first book to serve as a sort of gateway character for the readers; they'll learn about the past as she learns about it, more or less. And it'll probably be an altogether stronger book than either book by itself would have been. Of course, this means scrapping most of the 33 pages I've already written, but that's life.

Thanks Tartra, seriously. Now to do some brainstorming and then get cracking...

Whenever I write, I can't stand what ever I get down. It feels that whatever I put on the page is complete shit. Anyone else feel this way about their writing?

That's normal. It's called the first draft :P .

You're supposed to just get the crap on the page, then worry about it later. Easier said than done for me considering the massive perfectionist I am.

I've got an issue with story structure that has dogged me, literally, for years. Even when I write an outline, the actual writing part tends to feel... off. Like the pacing is all wrong.

But I've got an idea.

I think I ought to... not re-read, but at least re-skim a book. The Eye of the World, perhaps? Or Snow Crash. And, quite literally, take notes on how the stories are structured, chapter by chapter. Try to understand why the author arranged them so.

edited 9th Aug '16 6:25:41 PM by KillerClowns

Hey there people. Am I the only one that has trouble writing physical descriptions? Maybe it is because I am extremely introspective, but I find it hard to balance dialogue, character thought and general descriptions. Often, I try to write how a character's state of mind changes their posture and gestures, even when it is not plot relevant, to avoid creating a plane of pure thought where it wasn't intended but the result sonetimes feels broken and awkward.

edited 9th Aug '16 6:12:46 PM by EternaMemoria

Well, that was a big difference. I started over today with the Post Apocalyptic Fantasy setting and the new protagonist, and I manged to get out 6 pages and nearly 1000 words in just over an hour. Even though there hasn't actually much really happening, I'm just that much more invested in writing this than I had been, and it's making a world of difference. Here's to many more pages to come.

Generally, I only write physical descriptions only when appropriate. For example, if they're arranging their hair, then I'll describe the color and style of the hair, or of if they're putting on their jacket, I'll tell you just what kind of jacket it is. But other than that, the only other time I'll do it is when the character's physical appearance is just that stand-out or noticeable that I feel have to describe it, and even then, I try not to get too bogged down in the details and instead let the readers' imagination fill in the blanks. Trying to give them every single physical description imaginable just clutters the work and makes it a slog to get through, so I'd say you should probably only use descriptions when absolutely necessary. But it's up to you.

edited 10th Aug '16 1:36:14 PM by kkhohoho

*6 Ruinin' 33 pages is what I do! And it's great to hear that you're back to writing what you want to write, instead of what you 'have' to. Just remember to check in with yourself. Sometimes the investment overtakes the interest and you get right back to being stuck in the Bored Rut.

*5 All right, buckle up.

Fun fact: everyone has been through the same block you're at now (which specifically means that everything you write reads like shit):

You are a better reader than a writer.

This is actually a great place to be, 'cause before this, your stories were fun bursts of leisure that got you into the thrill of writing. Now you're trying to commit to an idea, and you've realized it means working when it's not fun, or massaging the boring into awesome. It's hard; you'll write, and it'll make sense, but the Writer side of you won't quite know how to do it 'well', and the experienced Reader part of your head will go, "WHAT IS THIS SHIT I DON'T LIKE THIS TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME."

What you have to remember is that your Reader side is a dick. You'll have your sweet and innocent Writer side trying to do its thing, and your dickish inner Reader'll shout, "THE FUCK IS THIS GARBAGE, WHY AM I HERE, I AM ANGRY." That's why you're posting. You know you love reading, so clearly, it's your Writer at fault, and it has to buckle down to get better and try again with another draft - or even another idea. During the practice, though, where it's still you trying to find your voice, your Reader - who doesn't shut its ass up, by the way - is shrieking, "IF THIS SHIT WAS A REAL BOOK I WOULD BURN IT, I HATE EVERYTHING AND I HATE YOU." And now your inner Writer is panicking, 'cause you've been trying and nothing seems to please your Reader's expectations.

That part where you said "you can't stand what you put down" - that's not you speaking as a Writer. That's you as your Reader being a dick to yourself because you haven't taught it to work through the rough drafts, or that there even are rough drafts - I mean, not really. What you read even on a casual basis by total amateurs is still polished enough that those people feel comfortable sharing. And again, normally, you just put down the book if you don't like it. Now you're seeing it through and every crappy word is there in black and white. Believe me, everyone sucks like that on their first draft, from sw33tzyPrincess<3 on Wattpad to Stephen King on his latest novel - what they do that you haven't mastered yet is accepting that their inner Reader will always be there to yap, "LOL ARE YOU STILL TRYING THIS, WHY BOTHER, IT SUCKS." What you read by others is them overcoming that voice, because sometimes the idea is so nifty, they get too swept up in it and ignore it altogether - which is why you'll also see people posting multiple paragraphs about how they so didn't try hard writing it and it has typos and lol it was just for fun, because now that they're out of that whirlwind, the Reader's pointed shit out.

So here's what you do: punch it in its stupid throat and let your Writer write. Oooh, your Reader's gonna hate this, and it's gonna freak out in the background about how your sentence isn't pecfect and who the fuck even writes like that but a total amateur and you're the worst, but if you love your Writer side, and if you're committed to the idea, you'll punch it in its stupid throat again. When you do find your voice (don't rush it!! This can take years) and realize you wrote something your Reader actually likes? It's gonna evolve into a new kind of dick: the Inner Editor, who says, "AH HA SO YOU CAN WRITE, BUT WHY DON'T YOU ALWAYS WRITE PERFECTLY ON THE FIRST TRY, YOU'RE DONE, THERE'S NO MAGIC LEFT IN YOU." And then you gotta punch that asshole in the face for the rest of your career.

Do you get what I'm saying? Your Reader is not your friend. Give it a face, like a fedora'd neckbeard wiping Cheetos on your shoulder. It wants entertainment and doesn't give a damn about how hard the job is. Please it, and you've got a fan! But your goal right now is not about making it happy. Your goal is to put something coherent on the page, and then work with your Writer to see the objective issues and fix them, and then run through it again, adding ideas. When you've added all the ideas you can, then you let your Reader peek - peek, dammit - at the gist and see if it still thinks the concept is cool. Then you refine your writing. Then you let it peek again. Then you refine some more. And then you put it aside a little bit and you let your Reader - not your Writer this time, who's so biased by how hard this was - tear into it like it doesn't even know it's yours. Then you take that info and refine some more. As you get better, you can do that faster. For now, keep your Reader the hell away and let your Writer write.

edited 10th Aug '16 9:28:02 AM by Tartra

You are not alone in this regard; I can describe a fight scene pretty well, but I always find myself avoiding describing what my characters look like. Then again, it usually only comes up when extremely necessary, but it is something I need to work on.

i'm trying to figure out my character's personality and backstory so i can write down in a bio of mine. the problem is, my character comes off as unlikable and his backstory kinda makes me scared of what people might say about it.

Don't worry too much about it. If you're that concerned about his backstory, then just post it up here and let us take a look; see what we think. Chances are, it may not be that big of a deal, and if it is, maybe we can help you out on that.

Let me summarize for you in bullet points:

• Silvas was created as part of a bioroid solder program called project 8. He was one of 8 bioroids created during the scientific project. Each of them were modeled after the 8 deadly sins.
• during his youth ( they came out as young child after the creation process was complete) he was picked on for having weak and pathetic powers compared to his other siblings who powers sparked interest towards the scientist. It didn't help that his powers at first made people feel sad every time they were in close proximity to him.
• as he got older, his powers become more advanced but also made things worse for him. One of his caretakers snapped her own neck after he told her die. Afterward, he felt so afraid that his powers could potentially kill people. He grew distant from his brothers and sisters to ensure he won't hurt them too.
• Silvas became an asocial person until he met his new caretaker, a robot name R.T. The robot taught Silvas that no matter what, he should always have a smile on his, even in the worse of moments. Sadly for him, Silvas tried but his way of lighten up the mood seem a bit morbid and unsettling leading to people he come near him to be uneasy with him. Despite that, he felt a bit happier than he use to and he was the only one who've taken a liking to R.T.
• few years have passed and life in the facility went on as it always been until suddenly a explosive was set off. Half of the facility was in flames as Silvas tried everything to get out of his condiment until one of the resistance members finds him and gets him out of there. He sees the rest of the siblings outside of their confinement as well. He tries to go with them yet he isn't sure whether to go with the resistance or with his siblings. He chooses to go with the resistance and leaves his siblings behind.
• The escape was going smoothly until the group was spotted by a pack of biohounds and soldiers. The resistance members and the soldiers opened fire while tried sneaking away. That's until a few biohounds pounce on him and began mailing him. He tried to use his powers but to no effect and the biohounds tore him limb from limb. The biohounds ran off when the flames began to surround them. After the fire was put out, all that was left was nothing but like of severed , torn limbs and a scorned corpse of Silvas. The leader of the resistance, ellenora bloodmane, slowly walked towards his corpse then dropped to her knees. she grabbed the remnants of his body and asked one of the resistance's medics what they should do with him. One them said that his body was beyond repair and the only way they could save him was to put him in a new body. The closest they got to a perfect match was one of the resistance member's children, a boy named Henry Ariwa.

• The medics used mixture of magic and nanities to successfully combine Silvas's DNA with Henry. The downside is Silvas won't have much control of the body until some catalyst activates the dormant DNA that is his.

• 15 years later, Slivas's host, Henry Ariwa grows up to be a normal kid who wants to be best friends with one the popular kids, lilliel. Yet, everyone around thinks it's weird for a baseline human to pals with a upgrader (transhuman). Despite everyone's comments, he tries to befriend them but it backfires spectacularly. After the embarrassing moment at school, he tries forget about it while he's riding on his hoverboard home. He's ends up in the middle of fight between the resistance and a rogue AI. The AI sees him on it scents and charges at him. Henry was closed his eyes expecting for the worse till Ellen jumped in and pushed him out the way. Ellen the tosses him a pill of some kind and orders him swallow it.
• Henry always hesitate but if it's the only way to save then he has to try. He quickly swallows the pill but nothing happens for a few seconds until he feels strange, somewhat painful sensation surge though him. He screams I pain as his whole body shifts into a new form. Silvas finally takes control and dispatches the AI by causing its machinery to go haywire.
• Ellen was impressed but not impressed enough ("not half bad kid, but it's gonna take more then some children's play to impress me, kid.") Silvas is recruited into the resistance as the group's assassin and spy. Silvas tried to use this opportunity to find the rest of his 'family' after years of being apart and try to figure out the truth behind the project 8 experiment.

Had a few beers. Now noting the ~20,000 words I haven't touched in five years for an abandoned version of my story. Absolutely great for my sanity. Also, it feels like way less than a half-decade since I thought that particular plot-line would work.

Seriously, though, they say a writer has X number of bad stories to get out before they get to the good ones. Guess that aborted start was one such. Man, the spellings I have changed since. Asau to Aseyu, Avea to Iveya... shit, I had no idea how the Uelane language worked back then, just stuck some vowels together with enough consonants to hold together.

Also thought I accidentally drunkenly annihilated the entirety of my current version for fifteen-odd minutes. That was fun. It was fine.

Okay. Most of that backstory is fine, but I think I've found the big problem here:

What you're saying here is that the Resistance — including Henry's own father — intentionally merged Silvas' DNA with Henry knowing that, some day, Silvas would essentially completely takeover, thus depriving Henry of his own free will. And Silvas being able to change back to Henry doesn't make things any better, because who's to say he'll even want to change back? I don't think someone who's finally alive again after so many years is going to want to potentially ruin that by changing back into someone he probably doesn't care about, because who's to say Henry wouldn't just stay as Henry either?

On top of that, why would by the boy's own father submit his own son to his free will eventually being taken away? If Silvas would stay dead if his DNA wasn't 'merged' with Henry, then so be it; his own life and free will should be more important to Henry's father than someone who might as well be already dead and buried, unless he's just Gendo 2.0 a plain awful father.

And what about Henry? What say does he get in this? Is he even aware of what was done to him? Because I think he would be. After all, having someone's DNA grafted is a no doubt long and rather involved process that you're likely never going to forget. But all of that is kind of mute, because unless he has any real self worth, I don't think he'd go through with it; not unless his own existence is at stake. Again, Silvas isn't dying; he's already dead, and unless the resistance really needed his talents, he should probably have been left in the dirt. Not that Henry would care, because he's probably just a boy who likely doesn't care that much about any of this, and just wants to live his own life. That is, his own life, rather than facing the prospect of eventually submitting it to someone who has for all intents and purposes already kicked the bucket.

I'm not trying to be harsh simply for the purpose of being harsh. I'm just trying to make clear exactly how problematic this entire backstory is. Whatever you go with is up to you, but if it were me, I'd scrap everything after 'he chooses to go with the resistance' and go from there, because as is, this is just all sorts of fricked up, and not in a good way.

edited 11th Aug '16 8:48:31 AM by kkhohoho

Sounds like a fun bit of editing. I remember a few weeks back, when I was just about to pass the 45,000 word benchmark I set for myself before I know I can't exactly turn back when I realized "This isn't the story I want to write". It's not as extreme as your experience, but it's my own.

Keep at it, though; a good bit of editing can do wonders for a story... if only I had heeded that advice in earlier stories.

oh thanks for the feedback. One thing to note. The guy is Henry's mother. Another thing, yeah when you think about it, is sucks. But the things is....please don't kill me..that's what kicks off the story. The fact Henry and Silvas share a body gets the attention of the two of the biggest corporations, biogeniix and C.O.P.E as well as Silvas's other siblings who are shocked about his predicament. One thing iask of you though, how can I still keep this without making it raise a few eyebrows. I know good and well this sort of thing was done before that was handled quite well (bird the mighty). I don't wanna change it too much but still enough so it won't come off as well, in your opinion, fricked up.

edited 11th Aug '16 4:40:47 AM by ewolf2015

Look, I by no means want to crush your hopes and dreams, and no matter what I say, I encourage you to keep writing and to keep honing your craft, definitely. But I'm just going to be blunt: If the crux of your story depends on a series of events that by all means probably shouldn't even happen, thereby making the story itself fundamentally flawed down to its' very framework, than maybe you should burn it all down and start from the ground floor. Think about how this story can work while making sense, and if it can't, then you should probably tell a different story altogether. Of course, it's up to you, but that's my two cents.

I showed this backstory to a few users and they said it was ok. I was a bit baffled until I realized everyone's opinion was different. I'm not trying to say your wrong. it helped me think a little more. I've decided to change it up a bit but still kept the whole sharing a body thing so it would at least make a bit more sense in the long run. I guess your harsh criticism actually helped me. Kudos on that.

Hey, it's your story, so you can do whatever you want. I'm just giving you my honest opinion here. And I think your idea can still work with the proper retools. For example, have you thought about giving Henry some sort of illness? Something that the only way to heal it would be through giving him Silvas' superpowered DNA? And on top of that, you could have it so that the people merging the two together don't know that Silvas will eventually be able to regain control, so that when it eventually happens, they'll be just as flabbergasted as Henry is, and it would help keep his mother from becoming a genderbended Gendo. Again, it's up to you, but it's still something to think about.

Running of off the whole Henry is ill/dying thing, maybe also have it that his parents have no idea what the DNA will do, but are just desperate for some kind of solution.

i was thinking of that too. you read my mind dude

This is also for ask about certain characters?

Oh, well, i want give some Adaptational Villany to Sophia, the mother godess of gnosticism, because when you take things in perspective, Gnosticism is considerably more elitist and pretentious than the mainstream Abrahamic religions EVER.

Basically, the God that everyone else worships is evil, but that everyone else is too stupid to see it, but also that most of the everyone else is sub-human anyway (because they lack the "divine spark"). Is kind of the default worldview for pricks and narcissists.

Oh, wait, it become better, the ones with the divine spark, are intellectuals philosopher, just like us, and the others aren`t true humans. Also, everything who isn`t humans (except The Aeon Christ who laught after see how other dude die a agonizating dead in the Cross) is bad, because the Demiurge is evil.

edited 11th Aug '16 6:34:50 PM by KazuyaProta