"Girl games" and the video game industry

The idea for this thread came to me after watching a video from YouTuber Tamashii Hiroka (which I'll embed at the bottom of the post) comparing games for girls from 20 years ago and games for girls today.

The video game industry, for the longest time, in terms of consumers, has been seen as a highly male-dominated field by the companies who produce video games. Even despite statistics that say otherwise, girls are seen simply as a niche market for many companies, and they feel the need both to pander to them when they want to attract that demographic and to put considerably less effort into these products. While this gap has greatly lessened these days, it's still at least prevalent in the thematic differences between "girl games" and "general audience" games.

My question is, what are some games that you think help to shatter these stereotypes? What are games that, for example, you personally would buy for your young daughter or niece or cousin or what have you if you were to look for video games for her, games that you think might not send a greatly negative message and games that are actually well-designed and fun to play? The embedded video suggests the Cooking Mama series as one with decent gameplay elements (if regressive gender stereotyping at times, with games like Babysitting Mama) and a handful of Ubisoft's Imagine games (such as Imagine Detective) as ones that actually try to give a cohesive game experience. Of course there are series that have been proven to have multi-demographic appeal, such as Animal Crossing and The Legend of Zelda, but I'm looking for answers thinking outside of the box here (but if you can't think of any, then sure, feel free to discuss more well-known examples).

Here's the video that sparked this topic for me. It's a half hour long, but it's pretty good, reasonably comprehensive and provides decent analysis:

(And just a prewarning, stay the hell away from bringing up volatile topics like GG, for reasons that should be obvious even beyond that topic being against the rules.)

What's make a "girl game" anyway?

Capitalism.

A game marketed specifically to girls, I would imagine. So any bloody thing that the idiot companies decide "girls" should play with and that guys should stay away from. Nevermind the fact that there's probably a lot of women who play games of some sort or another, and that they prefer the same sorts of games as us men to boot.

And then My Little Pony happened.

my favorite girl game is Baby Elsa's Spinal Surgery

Candy Crush happened, annoying but true.

Anyway there are quite a few games out there with large female fanbases such as World Of Warcraft and Final Fantasy.

I've heard the Style Savvy series, super stereotypically girly it may be on the surface, has deep gameplay to it and is miles above anything else in the same genre. I know I've been tempted to play in more than once

Actually, it reminds me of the Easy Bake Oven from when I was a kid- I'd totally buy it if there were a "boy" option.

I'd prefer if people were worried about "good" games more than "girl" games. The recalcitrance of women into videogames stems on the fact that we ask "So what do you guys think are good girl games?", instead of just try to foster a culture that is more welcoming to women in any aspect.

My sister has enjoyed things from Super Mario, to Rayman, to Eternal Darkness, to Just Dance. And you can find women that enjoy stuff from Silent Hill to League of Legends. The fact "we" insist on labeling things as "girls and boys stuff" is what drives people away from anything: be it Barbies or Turok.

You mentioned a good example: World of Warcraft. Though its story and visual elements are grotesquely stained with the usual sexist elements of skimpy clothing and worthlessness of female characters, its gameplay is perfectly androgynous, its marketing is gender neutral and its invitation to play it is worldwide with focus simply on the fun you can have with others as opposed to "BE THE BEST MUSCLE MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN"

So, yeah. Basically, I think you are asking the wrong question.

edited 2nd Dec '15 6:48:56 AM by Aszur

I've always felt the Easy Bake Over as a "girl" thing was kinda silly. I mean, assuming most people eventually live on their own for some period of time, most people kinda need to eventually learn how to cook to some degree, right?

And hey, Style Savvy has a song or two in Smash 4, so there clearly must be something there Nintendo sees in it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on wanting gendered marketing eradicated. But as long as we're still steeped in that culture, I still feel like it behooves us to seep through that and see what we can find. Gendered marketing still exists and is only going away in a very gradual progression, so we might as well make the best of it while we try to eliminate it. Not to mention looking at the gaming market and seeing what doesn't reinforce these stereotypes.

edited 2nd Dec '15 6:52:22 AM by Odd1

"Making the best of it" does not mean "Let us keep playing it straight". Games are not meant to be bait for an entire gender. It is the product, to some extent (the things about the skimpy clothing for example) but that alone is not as relevant to keeping women away from trying a videogame if they are going to be labeled and categorized just for doing so by the community who plays those videogames.

edited 2nd Dec '15 6:53:37 AM by Aszur

Games that just aren't sexist are equally as good "girl games" than they are "guy games". Mass Effect has a fanbase that is probably evenly split despite being as AAA as you get and absolutely not being marketed towards either gender.

Up until 3, no, marketing was very much targeted at males. It wasn't until they realized how popular femshep was in the middle of two that they started to market both to everyone.

Now femshep seems to be the canon shep with the Andromeda trailer.

Anyway there was a story a while back on how Call Of Duty had a huge female fanbase too and it's been getting larger year by year umm let me see if I can find it.

edited 2nd Dec '15 7:05:44 AM by Memers

I feel like girl games the same I do about girl Legos.

I hear people complain about the girly Lego lines and talk about how it's offensive that they think girls need special Legos in pastels with more feminine proportions and kitties and everything. Those people are idiots.

The girly-girl products (Lego Friends, Nerf Rebelle, girly games) are meant to attract a new demographic. Creators realize that a Lego truck isn't an inherently boy toy. The girls who just want to play with Lego bricks can use a normal set the same as any boy. However, the girls that wouldn't, those that would rather play with dolls or something pink? That's who those are aimed at.

Games are for girls and for boys. Be it Halo, Smash Bros, Beyond God and Evil, most games aren't meant to push away one gender. Developers know that girls play games. The overly-girly games aren't meant for girl gamers, they're meant to attract a new demographic that otherwise wouldn't be into games.

Is the video game industry overly masculine? Honestly, yes. But girl games aren't the problem.

...I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying, but I don't know how to explain it any better than I have. Especially considering I already said some of the things you said there and agree with you on those points, just that those points aren't what I opened this thread to discuss. (Also, you might want to reread my post, since I edited it in the time before you were done writing your post.)

edited 2nd Dec '15 7:13:48 AM by Odd1

I'd compare it to the film concept of a "Chick Flick". Sure, in practice women like lots of different types of movies-but on the other hand, there are certain films that women like more than men do.

I mean, the problem with trying to eliminate the concept of the girl game is that there's always going to be games that women like more than men do and vice-versa, and it would be silly to not take the gender of your demographic into account.

I mean, the problem with the quality of "girl games" is that they tend to pander towards their demographic, and pandering is bad. I'd argue that the Sims is a good example of a "girl game" (it being basically a virtual dollhouse).

I understand that you seek to make a gradual approach and to seek in the current market for exmaples that could better be promoted, but my point is that this is unnecesary because the diversity and the craftsmanship of videogames is already there.

As I said before, you can get anyone regardless of gender to enjoy any game so long as the game is enjoyable and the cultural baggage is removed. The last one is however not something we can do by our lonesome.

Why do girls prefer smartphone games over console or PC games? When you are hunched over your smartphone you could be texting, or even working. When she can just be safely having fun without suffering the repercussion of being called anything for playing whatever the fuck she wants. A girl with a console in her room? Weird. A girl with a top of the line gaming PC? Geeky nerd and weird. A girl with a smartphone? Hey, those are normal.

Ah, but is that due to women inherently liking those kinds of things better, or is it due to societal influence telling them that this is what they are supposed to prefer? That's the thing with gender stereotyping and gendered marketing, it runs on prescriptivism that people mistake for something inherent. Or people see these commonalities and don't ask themselves why these commonalities exist.

But this is getting away from the point here.

So, now, let's get back on track to discussing actual games here.

edited 2nd Dec '15 7:28:32 AM by Odd1

If I was getting a game for a young girl, I'd consider Pokemon because you can choose which Pokemon you catch and use on your team, and there are Pokemon to appeal to everyone. If they wanted to, girls make a team of six cute or pretty Pokemon and have as much success as a boy choosing a team of six cool looking Pokemon. Of course, you can choose whichever Pokemon you like, and a girl could make her own team of six cool looking Pokemon if she wanted to as well, thanks to choice aspect. There are activities besides battling in the games, like contests or trading. I've heard that Legacy Of Kain has a large female fanbase as well.

This is an excellent point. It's not an idea I had considered before, and yet it makes perfect sense.

edited 2nd Dec '15 7:51:45 AM by GavsEvans123

My favorite girl game is the Sono Hanabira series, it has only female characters! :^)

Really, can you actually expect for "Girl Gamers" to be taken seriously if we have to create a whole separate genre for them? Separate but equal has been proven to be pretty bullshit.

That only holds up if you think girls are somehow barred from playing "boys" games.

Not physically, no. By culture, however, they are.

Culture is a bag of dicks.

x4 The only real separation would be Fanservice games, those are clearly aimed at guys or girls. The real big problem with that while most are made in Japan, most of those aimed at girls there don't make it to the west. If the Do A trend keeps up games aimed at guys won't be coming over as well...

Of course there are regular games there that are very clearly aimed at girls like Aikatsu and such, news stories happen when guys play this at arcades, those don't make it over as well.

edited 2nd Dec '15 9:40:40 AM by Memers

Step 1: Be a girl

Step 2: Play video games

Doesn't seem too hard.

edited 2nd Dec '15 9:43:33 AM by MoreThanBored