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TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#1: Apr 9th 2015 at 7:36:12 PM

One of my protagonists is a Knight in Sour Armour, Jerk Ass With A Heart Of Gold who goes through a gradual Defrosting Ice Man over the course of the series. I'm trying to portray him initially as a kind of mean person (he has some friends who like him, but he's sometimes very disrespectful and downright spiteful towards people) He also has a smoking habit at the beginning, which, in the setting itself isn't seen as unwise as it is in Real Life (as their science is unaware that tobacco usage can cause long-term health problems and he is a person with magical abilities that would cancel out the health risks anyway)

This is one way I was planning at hinting at his self-destructive tendencies, allow him to foil more strongly against a character who has a very different personality is said to smell like flowers (as this character often reeks of tobacco smoke) and also him eventually quitting smoking is a subtle part of his character development.

I'm worried this aspect of his characterization make make him seem like an insufferable Byronic Hero (I dread this so much because I very much dislike many prominent uses of the trope) and/or romanticize his smoking habit.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd really appreciate it.

edited 9th Apr '15 7:36:22 PM by TheMuse

Faemonic Since: Dec, 2014
#2: Apr 10th 2015 at 12:41:08 AM

You can't control how each and every reader is going to take it, though. I think if you have that kernel of "eww…smoker" then it'll come through.

Unless someone else has that idea that smoking is glamorous or edgy or even an ordinary habit. Then that subconscious idea is going to make it easy for them to not pick up what you're putting down.

Can't blame either of you.

I'm writing one of those drunk pirates. Part of me really doesn't want to, because of alcoholism in my family, but the part that's communicating with my muse keeps going, "Do it! It'll be so funny!" Because part of me thinks it's funny. So I'm just going to write it out and see what I can do differently once I've got the Editor's Hat on.

Aetol from France Since: Jan, 2015
#3: Apr 10th 2015 at 4:23:00 AM

Maybe you could insist more on the unpleasantness of the withdrawal than on the smoking itself. I've read a comic where the smoking habit of the protagonist was treated like that.

Worldbuilding is fun, writing is a chore
AwSamWeston Fantasy writer turned Filmmaker. from Minnesota Nice Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Fantasy writer turned Filmmaker.
#4: Apr 10th 2015 at 7:09:54 AM

Not gonna lie: When I first read the title I thought it meant "It's cool to avoid smoking" which, to me, sounded like one of those corny posters they put up in schools. Moving on...

I like Faemonic's suggestion to have the characters around him go "eww... Smoker." One way you could achieve that "disgusted" feeling is to have the characters around him cough, make squicking sounds, and so on. Basically, play up the surrounding characters' discomfort.

Award-winning screenwriter. Directed some movies. Trying to earn a Creator page. I do feedback here.
Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#5: Apr 10th 2015 at 2:03:51 PM

Just write it like it's something he does out of habit - both physical and psychological - rather than something done to look awesome or badass to others.

I don't know if you're a smoker yourself, so if you aren't (and for others who want to know the difference between "I'm a habitual smoker" and "Lookit me, I'm cool") here's some pointers about habitual smokers:

We can't go without a cigarette for too long without feeling its lack (how long depends on how often the smoker smokes normally (a pack-a-day smoker can go longer than a two-pack-a-day smoker). Starts off wanting a cigarette break, progresses to needing a cigarette break. We get irritated if we are prevented from having it and tend to get pissed off with [who|what]ever is preventing the cigarette break.

If suitably distracted, can go without cigarettes for longer than if not (e.g. engaged in interesting work) but if not mentally engaged get bored/ratty and want to bunk off for a smoke.

Psychological: when another smoker lights up, tend to want to have one even if we've just finished one two minutes ago. Certain mental triggers - while drinking coffee/tea/alcohol, after meals, first thing in morning, when chatting on phone or whatever - we grope for our cigarettes.

First thing in morning, after a night of enforced non-smoking (sleeping) desperate for a ciggy and not tolerant of having that interrupted, delayed, prevented etc. "For chrissakes fuck off, I haven't even had my wake-up ciggy yet!"

If bored, tend to smoke more - stuck somewhere with nothing to do or occupy the mind and hands, tend to go through more cigarettes than on a normal day (e.g. smoke more on weekends when there's nothing to prevent it than on weekdays with enforced periods of work and regulated break times).

Not every cigarette is a relaxing break in which the cigarette is enjoyed, it's often a mechanical action in response to a trigger (psychological or withdrawal) and is just done.

Avoid cool-sounding descriptors, just go with the mood of "I need a smoke" and baldly describe him racing out to have one, perhaps even ensuring the stress that he's recovering from by having a cigarette is actually the stress caused by his not having had something to which he's addicted for some time.

Unless the person's also a drinker, the cigarette is the go-to stress reliever (it's always amused me how it's unacceptable, in movies and TV showes, to depict people responding to a stressful day at work by lighting up a cigarette but it's perfectly acceptable to depict them hitting the bar or their own well-stocked booze cabinet.) If I've had a hard day, I light a cigarette, not get boozed out of my gourd.

(if the character's also a drinker, stress relief would probably involve both a cigarette and a drink...)

In short, don't write it like "cool badass flips cigarette into mouth, snaps open lighter, sucks rich smoke into his lungs and exhales in a cool fashion" write it like "dude was hanging out for a smoke and hastily made his way to the smoking area and lit up" or "the witness lit a cigarette so, despite having finished one not five minutes ago, Bill fished out his own cigarettes and followed suit" or "the phone rang halfway through his morning cigarette and he snarled obscenities"

Point out, if the character is smoking more than usual - stress, boredom, others lighting up and triggering reciprocal action etc - that their throat is starting to feel dry and the cigarettes are starting to taste foul.

A lot of Smoking Is Cool is due to the characters as not being depicted as smoking enough - they have a few scenes in which they smoke in a stylish manner and that's it - we don't see them frantically puffing on a cigarette before heading into a two hour movie with no intermission and practically running over everyone's shoulders after they get out again to get to where they can have a ciggy.

edited 10th Apr '15 2:11:28 PM by Wolf1066

TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#6: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:42:41 PM

[up] I'm not a smoker (and don't plan on starting) and I'm not old enought to drink legally. That description is actually pretty helpful, so thank you very much.

[up][up][up] I definitely see where you're coming from Faemonic. I have a lot of alcoholism in my family (fortunately I've never been witnessed it first-hand) and am writing characters with non-humorous drinking problems, but I will often release (somewhat guilty) titters when I see/read it being played for laughs (the most prominent example for me would probably be Beyond Belief from The Thrilling Adventure Hour)

My recommendation for you would try to make it as outlandish as possible (which actually is a good suggestion for a lot of Black Comedy) like having the pirate consume amounts of alcohol that would obviously be impossible in Real Life or something like that. If the drunk pirate is also a minor, rather than major character, it'll probably be seen as less of an issue as well.

Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#7: Apr 10th 2015 at 4:21:14 PM

[up]You're most welcome and I don't recommend you start.

If you're a habitual coffee (or other caffeinated beverage) drinker, draw inspiration from that. Otherwise bear in mind that your character is an addict (so don't make the quitting easy - it's been said that it's easier to quit heroin) and will have triggers, needs, withdrawals and such like.

Your character is going to want to light up at times that might not be convenient to the plot or the plot's going to prevent them from lighting up - with consequences.

I'm trying to think of things that depict regular smoking realistically and, in the context of the "not knowing the dangers", you mentioned (or otherwise lacking the social stigma), I'm thinking the first series of "Call The Midwife" (a British series) wherein it shows people smoking in the waiting room - including the doctors. Haven't watched the second series yet, so I can't speak for it.

Non smokers in such a setting would be irritated by the smell and perhaps cough due to the harshness of smoke but would not be overly concerned (annoyed, but not concerned for their own safety).

To the smoker, the smell of another's cigarette smoke would prompt a desire to have one (I hate pulling up behind a car in which someone is smoking when I'm on my motorcycle because I can smell their smoke and instantly want a cigarette that I can't have!)

When your character quits, all those triggers are going to result in a hard time - won't enjoy going to the pub or having a cup of coffee because they will instinctively want a cigarette to go with it. Answers the phone and automatically wants to light up while chatting. Finishes dinner and wants to sit back with a ciggy afterwards.

If troubled with a problem, I head out for a ciggy to give myself time to think it over - and having a ciggy does help, it's not just the time out as taking time out without a cigarette is not as productive - so your detective will most likely use cigarettes as an aid to cogitation. Puzzling case, lights cigarette and thinks it over.

Has a lengthy set of case notes or an autopsy report to review, sits down, lights cigarette, starts reading. Possibly several cigarettes later, throat sore and mouth tasting like the bottom of a bird cage, finishes reading. Be off hand about it, don't focus on him lighting up and enjoying the smoke - he's not, he's operating on autopilot while the mind is focussed on the contents of the report - just "100 pages and three cigarettes later, he finally put the report down". Nothing "cool" about it.

What daily rituals do you have? What do you do to cope with stress? (Go for walk? Chew gum?) Replace those with "lighting up" when your character is in similar situations.

TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#8: Apr 10th 2015 at 4:38:41 PM

Him quitting is mainly caused by him not having access to cigarettes for a stretch of time and going through withdrawal (which puts him in a shitty mood for a long time) which is slightly elieviated by entering a new relationship and dealing with some emotional issues (which he was partially self medicating for with smoking)

If he ended up in a extremely stressful situation and relapsed, would he have to start all over again with getting "sober," or would it be slightly more easy to quit again?

Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#9: Apr 10th 2015 at 5:22:04 PM

One cigarette and you're "off the wagon" and you've got to go through it all again - sometimes with the additional internal knowledge that you failed before...

Unless you're of the mental/physiological make-up to be a "casual smoker" - if you're a hard-core regular smoker, pack plus a day - you can't just have one or an occasional one. You have one then another then another and next thing you know you're buying a pack (and another pack...)

From one who "gave up" twice... [lol]

AwSamWeston Fantasy writer turned Filmmaker. from Minnesota Nice Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Fantasy writer turned Filmmaker.
#10: Apr 10th 2015 at 8:37:42 PM

I've heard that smoking lowers the appetite (or something like that), and that a lot of smokers gain weight when they quit. If that's true, it might be worth keeping in mind.

Award-winning screenwriter. Directed some movies. Trying to earn a Creator page. I do feedback here.
TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#11: Apr 10th 2015 at 8:54:47 PM

[up] I've heard about that too and was planning on describing him as looking a bit lean and angular looking in the beginning. He's in a preindustrial setting where it's be a bit of a challenge to eat enough to be overweight and his job forces him to be able physically active so it's not a huge risk.

I thought of maybe mentioning him filling out a bit (and looking better, because he looked almost sickly before) and overall looking much "softer."

Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#12: Apr 10th 2015 at 9:24:03 PM

It may well suppress appetite - the anorexic horrors that are called supermodels are frequently smokers and seem to subsist entirely on cigarettes and coffee.

Or "shoving something in your mouth" becomes substituted with food after quitting smoking.

Or both, combination of return of appetite and a desire to shove things in your gob.

I do know one woman I used to work with quit smoking and within two weeks was back out lighting up. When I asked her how come she gave up giving up so early she told me she'd put on 10 pounds within the two weeks and decided that she'd rather "maybe die" many years in the future of some smoking related disease than "definitely die" in a couple of years due to obesity related issues.

Dunno that smoking's done a lot to suppress my appetite - if it has, I dread what my appetite would really be like.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#13: Apr 14th 2015 at 3:54:50 PM

Another thing to keep in mind is that smokers, especially heavy smokers, do not smell nice. Having people backing away from him on buses, trains, etc, can easily send the message that his habit is unattractive to others. Some heavy smokers also get what I would term a "smoker look" which I cannot describe, but know when I see and find distinctly unappealing.

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#14: Apr 15th 2015 at 5:26:05 AM

I'm a smoker, my advice is don't start, but I can give a couple of pointers.

First you were asking about whether smoking can affect appetite or weight. I can confirm this to be true, those who smoke are weight wise in better health. The trade off of course being the nicotine and all the crap that's put into them they're basically a mild dose of poison, you feel less inclined to lose weight properly through exercise because smoking can knock you around.

As for how to make it less appealing, follow the money. The habit can easily cost a hundred dollars a week, more for heavy smokers. That's a new game you miss out on for the habit, cash you could salt away for something important or really cool.

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
Thelostcup Hilarious injoke Since: May, 2010
Hilarious injoke
#15: Apr 15th 2015 at 7:46:48 AM

Just a heads up, OP. Not everyone who smokes is a habitual smoker or addicted.

I stopped smoking cigarettes cold turkey and felt no withdrawal, and I never felt overtly compelled to light up when I did smoke.

I smoke cigarillos on occasion now, but that's just to enjoy the high.

Stress the dependency part if you want to be effective, as others have said. Whenever he character feels slightly antsy, make him instinctively reach for a cig.

If you find the text above offensive, don't look at it.
Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#16: Apr 15th 2015 at 12:56:48 PM

[up]One of those people who, through some quirk of body chemistry, can be a casual smoker. As hard as I try, I can't do that but I know a few who can (I'm "wired" for "habitual addict"). I've got a friend who'll smoke a pack of twenty in an evening's beer drinking session and get up the next morning with absolutely no desire to light up while I'm making a bee-line for coffee and cigarettes to start my day "properly".

@OP: Also, if your detective has to pursue someone on foot, have him run out of breath, possibly lose the target or succeed with difficulty and at a cost - puffing, wheezing, having to take time to recover afterwards.

I can walk for miles with no ill effect, but I can't run particularly far (mind you, I'm also asthmatic). On the other hand, I cope with high altitudes better than many non-smokers I know and don't get as breathless as they do when active up on mountains.

dvorak The World's Least Powerful Man from Hiding in your shadow (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
The World's Least Powerful Man
#17: Apr 20th 2015 at 1:29:49 PM

And of course there's obnoxious things a smoker can do, like blowing smoke in someone's face or flicking the ends at people.

Now everyone pat me on the back and tell me how clever I am!
Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#18: Apr 20th 2015 at 8:45:37 PM

That's simple "dickery" and not an inate aspect of smoking. It'd be handy if you were wanting to portray the character as a dick, but not strictly "smoking isn't cool". More like: "being a dick isn't nice".

I've never deliberately blown smoke into other people's faces (I actively try not to exhale my smoke in anyone's direction) nor have I flicked the butts at people, but I'm sure my habit annoys the crap out of non-smokers in many other ways, regardless of how considerate and non-dickish I might be.

edited 20th Apr '15 8:45:58 PM by Wolf1066

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#19: Apr 21st 2015 at 2:21:57 AM

[up] You don't have to deliberately blow smoke towards someone for them to get smoke in their face, or even just to wave a hand to try and disperse some of the fumes.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#20: Apr 21st 2015 at 2:54:56 AM

[up]True, but I got a "doing it deliberately" impression from what dvorak wrote rather than "smoke wafting into the person's face" - I had the image of those bits in movies where the baddie eyeballs the protagonist and deliberately blows smoke straight into their face in a "wadiyagonnadoaboutit?" fashion.

Certainly people getting annoyed about the smoke wafting over them in crowded areas - especially if the setting doesn't have the restrictions we have these days and harks back to the days when people smoked in theatres etc and there weren't "Smoking Sections" - will do its bit to make it look less cool.

The person actively choosing to blow their smoke into someone's face is going to make them look like an obnoxious dick - I personally wouldn't like it and I'm a smoker. I'd perceive it as a deliberate move with the intent to irritate, regardless of the fact that I'm not usually inconvenienced by someone else's cigarette smoke wafting over me (unless, as mentioned before, I'm stuck behind them on my motorbike and start wanting a cigarette I can't bloody have) and I'd react as I would to any deliberate act of annoyance.

Someone flicking their cigarette butt at me would definitely be offensive and would mark them as a complete wanker.

edited 21st Apr '15 2:55:55 AM by Wolf1066

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