Self Demonstrating Folder Titles

Oh dear god Accentuatethe Negative is worse then last time.

New theme music also a box

Can you please explain this further? I specifically put the folder titles in front of anything SD.

edited 12th Apr '15 9:13:10 AM by YungVenuz

verifyvenuz

Probably due to how the folder titles were too long and shouty

New theme music also a box

Speaking for myself: if the folder title is longer than, say, 10 words, the joke's dragged on too long to be effective, especially if there's several such folders in the list.

edited 13th Apr '15 6:27:25 AM by Willbyr

I'd go so far as to say that a folder title should not be a sentence, and it definitely shouldn't be multiple sentences. That's absurd. This isn't a Panic! at the Disco album.

I mean, a two- or three-word sentence is one thing, but come on.

That is rather imprecise. "I am hungry for Films — Live Action" is a sentence. "The crew gown fart house school glasses desk table pencil pen drink car bath sort glasses desk table pencil pen drink car bath sort verb pile green big asterisk button verb pile green big asterisk button keyboard nonsense paper" is not a sentence, but is much longer.

edited 13th Apr '15 10:49:36 AM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

That is rather pedantic. You obviously got my meaning. And those are both terrible folder titles anyway, for obvious reasons.

The second is, and I responded because I don't get your meaning.

Obviously a sentence must be acceptable practice for Self-Demonstrating folder titles, or the only tropes which could utilize it are tropes about sentence fragmentation. So "I am hungry for Films — Live Action" would seem acceptable, but not by your standard, and I dispute that the four additional words are at the expense of clarity.

So I'm asking you to clarify what your standard for "concise" is, since "a sentence" is generally considered concise.

edited 13th Apr '15 11:02:08 AM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

We've already agreed in this thread that folder titles need to at least begin with the standard folder title.

Thus, putting the folder title at the end of a sentence fails that criteria.

If it's going to come down to pedantry over how many extra words is considered too much for folder names in a self-demonstrating page, then we're going to have to nix the concept entirely. Seriously, people...

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Which is why I disagree with "a folder title should not be a sentence". The word "sentence" does not clarify how long the folder can/should be, and forbiding "sentence-length" specifically is asking a volume measurement to be used for length.

But that wasn't the criteria I was asking clarification on. Most pages don't allow the pronoun "I" either, so would be disallowed on those grounds as well. The point was your criteria forbid even a short sentence.

edited 13th Apr '15 12:24:46 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Which I think is reasonable. I'm not talking about length, I think the whole idea of sentences as a folder title is stupid. I also think first-person pronouns and other generally non-okay wiki writing things should also be removed.

You may not have been addressing the idea of putting SD content ahead of the actual folder title, but you did seem to be implying that that was an example of what should be reasonable. I don't believe that example is a good one.

Re: I've already voiced my opinion that SD folder titles should be nixed wholesale. At least, I think I have. If not, I'm doing so now.

edited 13th Apr '15 12:49:48 PM by SolipSchism

That's a reasonable complaint.

What do you think of Now Do It Again, Backwards?

I wish to present a counter-proposal: I think Self-Demonstrating folder titles on Self-Demonstrating Pages should be expected. Nixing them wholesale would disallow that. I'm less interested in any Self-Demonstrating existing outside of that namespace. (Exceptions made for the cases where it is less clear and concise to avoid Self-Demonstrating. [deepfrown] )

Please note that wittiness is not always the same as self-demonstrating, so I am not advocating all pages should use identical formatting.

edited 13th Apr '15 6:03:23 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Well, sure, allowing them in the S-D namespace is fine, but there should always be a Main namespace version of the page that readers can go to for clarity.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

"Nixed wholesale, ...with exceptions for clearly witty"

The problem with that is if we allow exceptions, they aren't "nixed wholesale", they're just "strongly discouraged". And anyone who adds them on a page now probably thinks that what they're adding is "clearly witty".

So nothing would change, really.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

In all fairness, I don't recall ever saying "with exceptions for clearly witty". I may have missed someone else saying that, but I don't believe it was me.

and I'd be down for that. I tend to withhold my opinions about nonstandard namespaces because they're already nonstandard, so I don't particularly care what rules they follow or break. But personally I feel like the Main namespace should have a "Zero tolerance for troublesome or problematic stuff" policy. If it's witty and indisputably clear, cool. If it starts causing issues, I'm for killing it. Mostly just to keep the policy simple. If the rule is "No SDFTs," no one can dispute it. If the policy is "No SDFTs except when it's indisputably clear," everyone will dispute how clear it is.

I would wholeheartedly vote in favor of killing SDFTs in the Main namespace (and work pages, and "main wiki" namespaces) and leaving them untouched in JFF, Darth Wiki, Sugar Wiki, and whatever else explicitly does not follow the main wiki's rules.

Re: Now Do It Again, Backwards: If we go by the "SDFT is okay as long as it's a reasonable length and has the normal folder title first" criteria, it's reasonable. But I still don't like it for reasons stated above.

edited 14th Apr '15 11:05:55 AM by SolipSchism

Drill Sergeant Nasty got reverted. Again. They ignored commented out warnings this time.

Suspended that user, re-reverted.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I'm not seeing anyone disagree. What should we do to make this official policy? Write it on Self Demonstrating Pages?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I do not agree with a blanket rule.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I would think that there is no reason to encourage self-demonstrating titles in main articles. A note to pretty please not do it would seem appropriate.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I strongly disagree with making a blanket rule. We can strongly discourage them without absolutely forbidding them.

edited 19th Apr '15 9:49:43 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

For the record, I also disagree with a blanket rule. There are a number that are perfectly fine right now, and really don't need to be changed. I agree that they should be strongly discouraged, but if they are concise, witty, and don't mess with clarity too much, we should leave them as is.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.

Is there any way we can clear this out? Fighteer says there's been some sort of ruling on this, but as far as I know, you're the only one who established the rule on that page, and there's no blanket ban so far.

edited 20th Apr '15 10:50:48 AM by YungVenuz

verifyvenuz

Can we please just have a hand-raising session on this to settle it? Because I read the EBS Thread where Fighteer talked to you, and he didn't say there had been a "ruling", he said there was a consensus, which just means a majority were in favor of it. So let's just lay this to rest, please.

I'm in favor of keeping SDFTs off of Drill Sergeant Nasty, at the very least, in the form they had, which was overly long and drawn-out and unfunny.

We can do a crowner for this if we really need to make it mathematical, but I hardly think that's necessary.