Why be a superhero?

I've been thinking of a superhero story where the main character is one of those Not Wearing Tights guys; he gets superpowers in a freak accident, but he tries to just cope with having them and live his life normally. Of course, when eventually situations do force him to use his powers, he naturally attracts attention from the town, the media, and the nearest superhero team.

Problem is, he doesn't want to be a superhero, doesn't want the public pressure that goes along with it, so the conflict I'm thinking of is his basically arguing with the team members about why he doesn't want to join them, while they try to give reasons why him joining would be a good thing. What're your guys' thoughts on the premise and on the central debate here?

Pros: Make a difference; some financial security and other protection/benefits.

Cons: Loss of private life; doubts that superheroics is best way for him to help people/make a difference; problems working in a team

If he doesn't wanna he doesn't wanna. I've always felt that the ever popular creed that "With great power comes great responsibility" can easily be read as "If you have power you're morally obligated to use it; marrying your childhood sweetheart and getting little house with a white picket fence and 2.5 kids are not in the cards for you."

That's certainly what Spider-Man always seems to convey, and reinforce over and over and over...

I don't know, there doesn't seem to be much of a story there. "Come join our team." "No thanks." "Okay."

Well, all right, let's see here.

"Making a difference". What's that mean? Who's he making a difference for that Stephen Ulysses Perhero can't make a difference for? What's the cutoff for making a difference? He can make a difference in the life of his lady love and their 2.5 kids and their little doggy named Spot. Are the differences he'd make for Ungrateful Populace du Jour somehow more significant than his family?

Financial security? He's being paid to be a hero? Is Genius Billionaire Playboy Philanthropist shelling out the dough as an added benefit for fighting the good fight?

Extra security is good on paper, but unless the little house with a white picket fence and the doghouse in back for the little dog, Spot, is in a particularly crime-heavy neighbourhood, or otherwise prone to supervillain attacks, I can't imagine that the same security system that your neighbour, Bob, uses won't be just as effective, and really should heroes be saying "We'll pay extra special attention to the people we care about, the common rubes will just get the basic watchful eye package"?

edited 15th Oct '14 11:14:55 PM by Eagal

Some possible scenarios that could get the guy to join a supergroup:

— The team (or maybe a private benefactor) offers him stupid money.

— He has incurred massive debt as result of his freak accident, and cuts some sort of deal that he join the supergroup for a finite period of time until they pay off what he owes.

— Metahumans are mandated by law to serve the government, and he is given the choice either to be dissected as a laboratory subject, or serve on a government-sponsored supergroup.

Argument in favour of joining: There are some threats that normal humans can't stop. That police and military would be helpless against. If superheroes don't stand up to fight those threats, then a lot of people will suffer, including the loved ones of the superheroes. Basically, enlightened self-interest.

Counter-argument: There already are superheroes fighting those threats. There will always be more superheroes who want to fight the good fight. Someone who isn't dedicated to protecting the world isn't going to do their best, and may be a liability.

Argument in favour of joining: We should all want to make the world a better place, to do something that benefits society in some way. If we have special skills that other people don't have, isn't there some obligation to use those skills for the greater good?

Counter-argument: Who's to say that punching bad guys is the only way to serve society? If he wants to serve a greater good through, say, journalism, then that's fine, too. Doing something out of a sense of obligation is a recipe for misery, and no one should be obligated to be miserable. Everyone deserves the right to be happy, no matter what their special skills.

Tiamatty, that sounds pretty good. I'm going to try and write some of that in.

"There's always going to be threats the police or army can't stop, that even they'd be helpless against. If we don't stand up to those threats, people will suffer, innocent people. Even your loved ones."

"Yeah, but there's already enough superheroes to deal with those guys. There's always going to be more superheroes. And they can probably do this a lot better than I can. And they're probably more dedicated to defending Earth than I am. If you put me out there, I won't be giving it my all, because this isn't what I want to do. I'm a liability to you guys."

"We should all want to make the world a better place, to do something that benefits society in some way." "If we have special skills that other people don't have, aren't we obligated to use them for the greater good?"

"I'm sorry, I didn't realize punching guys in clown suits was the only way to help mankind. Maybe I want to help mankind in some way that'll actually stick for a while, like journalism or something. I mean, that's just as noble as putting on tights and fighting giant robots, right? And as for obligation, well, I don't want to turn this into an obligation. If I'm obligated to use my powers, or do anything out of obligation, that's just a recipe for misery, isn't it? I don't want to feel obligated to be miserable. Doesn't everyone deserve the right to be happy, even with these powers?"

OOH! I just thought of a new argument against being in a team.

"If I join a team and become a superhero, then I'm kind of surrendering a bit of myself for the greater good, and not in a good way. I mean, in a super-team, I'd just be defined by my powers, not by who I am. I don't like that, I'd rather be a person, than powers and tights, if that's the tradeoff."

You could have the whole "joining the superhero team" thing be mandatory instead of voluntary. Like conscription into the army.

That way you could avoid anyone looking like jerks: the hero doesn't want to be a superhero but he/she doesn't have another choice; the team of superheroes do not come across as your drinking friend who is trying t push that beer down your throat against your will.

In fact, I do believe such a scenario could help you develop all characters equally. For example, if such a system existed, that could explain why some supers became villains: they didn't want to be superheroes either but they felt forced by the circumstances to run away, leave their old lives behind and, as the prosecution reached a breaking point, fight against those who wronged them (i.e. the government/team of superheroes).

Also, the members of the actual team could tell the protagonist how, despite being forced to be there, he/she could find some meaning in what they are doing.

I'm just suggesting this because, well, as someone else said: if he doesn't wanna, he doesn't wanna.

It's a straight power trip. Your choices matter on a vast scale. You hold dozens or hundreds of lives in your hands. You have the ability to chose who lives and who dies and to enforce that decision with ridiculous ease.

And you are lauded for it. Loved for it.

That could be very, very addictive.

I'll be upfront and say that I've got an obvious lean towards "just make him a superhero and be done with it", but I guess that isn't exactly an option, is it? Oh well. A little complexity never hurt anyone.

Before I say anything, though, I think there's something worth considering: who are the people around your main character? Friends, family, and such? When I think of superheroes, I find myself thinking about the people who influenced them, and pushed them toward the paths they've chosen. Superman wouldn't be Superman without the noble teachings of Ma and Pa Kent. Spider-Man got pushed into action thanks to a push from Uncle Ben. Batman and Captain America both had to deal with tragedies (not one-to-one, but still something), but how they went about it decided their arcs just as much as the costumed crook in need of a good haymaker.

So if it comes down to it, your main character could bring the people closest to him into the debate, and/or his final choices. How would the other heroes respond? Who knows? But if nothing else, you're giving yourself more tools to use.

Anyway, the debate at hand. The reason why I'd make a push for "just be a hero" is because it's pretty much understood that being a hero means being able to make the world a better place. But in your case? That could just be an assumption. What's the point in being a hero if there still are (and possibly always will be) villains running around? Can those ideals be defended if evil is constantly mucking things up? What if the Big Bad is just flat-out unbeatable?

The flip-side, of course, is that being a hero leads to more than just winning a fight. It could very well be a way for the MC to dye the world in his image — to make the world he envisions. (Likely one full of justice and order, given the subject matter and/or super-people involved.) As Night suggested, that's a pretty slippery slope; because of that, it could be something the MC actively pursues, OR something he's deathly afraid of.

So yeah. Lots of possibilities on this one.

As in go from the accident, learning his powers, then putting on tights and joining a team? No drama in that. A reluctant superhero is much more interesting to me.

I hadn't thought of a supporting cast yet. What I know about him so far is, he feels the need to help people when he can, but only if it's absolutely necessary, so perhaps a friend or relative is a police officer or other emergency service worker; he doesn't want his powers to define who he is as a person, so I'm guessing he was taught to never lose sight of who he is or let his abilities define him more than his personality and all that jazz; he seems driven to find his own way to make the world a better place that doesn't involve strapping on a cape and punching guys, so I can probably assume that he was taught that violence doesn't really solve problems, and yet he's willing to fight if it's absolutely necessary to protect someone. That'd cover his family I think, as for friends, I need to think about that. Either way, I'll probably bring them in when he's ready to decide.

The thought I've got for him is, yeah, there's always gonna be heroes besides me, and there's always gonna be villains. Is there really anything he'll contribute to the fight against evil? He's just a guy who can lift or run or jump or punch really good. There are guys with more power that can do more than him. So he'd rather take another path to help the world.

Why do people with superpowers, at least those that could actually be useful fighting crime, always become vigilantes? Doesn't anyone ever gain the power to shoot lasers from their eyes, and then decide to join the police?

I don't get it. Becoming a police officer seems like a logical step for any would-be crimefighter. Police officers are trained to safely and appropriately interact with the public, both innocent and criminal, in times of peace and danger. Police officers are trained to defend themselves, and are mentally prepared to make potentially life-saving decisions under extreme pressure. Police officers have access to intelligence networks to track down criminals, and the resources to safely and effectively apprehend them. Police officers wield state-derived authority, and command respect as stewards of society. And police officers have colleagues and allies who understand the work they do and the burdens they bear, and can give support and guidance through dark times.

Basically, police uphold the law, keep the peace and serve the people, and they do it with authority and expertise that some spandex punk vigilante would sorely lack. They do everything superheroes do, and get paid for it to boot.

edited 21st Oct '14 2:45:55 PM by Tungsten74

Police Are Useless. And/or corrupt.

In reality or in-universe?

Either way, I'd still prefer a police service that at least pays lip-service to due process and the rule of law, to roving gangs of superpowered vigilantes with no oversight or accountability whatsoever. One has room for reform, the other is a recipe for disaster.

EDIT: Hey, I had another thought: why are there no police officers who gained superpowers, and kept right on being police officers? Or, if it's an X Men-style situation and the powers don't kick in until puberty, what's stopping a kid who always really, really wanted to become a police officer (reputation be damned) from developing superpowers, and joining their local police service anyway?

EDIT EDIT: One more thing! Why do the police have to be useless/corrupt? Why can't they be competent and trustworthy for once?

And what makes superheroes so much more morally pure than police officers? Real-life vigilantes sure as hell aren't paragons of morality. In fact, most vigilante action in the real world involves lynch-mobs and extra-judicial killings. If you want to see some real masked crusaders, do a Google Image Search for "KKK rally".

Shit, and a third thing: if Team Super or whatever is more morally pure than the mundane police (maybe their leader has powers of Super Administration or can cast Detect Evil at-will, I dunno), why haven't they been put in charge of reforming the normal police? Surely the Ubermensch of Team Super could easily root out all the bad apples in the Everytown Police Department, eventually producing an institution as just and righteous as their own?

edited 22nd Oct '14 3:58:53 PM by Tungsten74

Paperwork. How many reports will you need to fill out to fire your gun? How about to shoot lasers from your eyes? Have power, will use. Don't need to be sitting around writing a precise account of what color the sky was when Johnny Cash shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.

Police are very often pretty effective with mundane criminals. Once you get into a guy that can turn into smoke or control the weather they're going to be a bit beyond their training.

Haha what. That's not how real-world police work at all. Police officers don't have to fill out a form before they can use their law-given powers. If that was the case, our systems of law and order would have collapsed long ago.

Police officers are given free reign to use their powers, including their firearms, as and when they see fit, with the provision that if it comes to light that they've been abusing that power, they will face criminal charges. They are given this freedom because our governments are not stupid, and realise that police officers often need to act quickly and decisively, without being tied up in red tape.

Accountability is important, of course, which is why police officers have to fill out paperwork and suchlike after the fact. If a police officer has to use their firearm, they will use their firearm. THEN they will fill out an incident report form, detailing precisely who or what they shot, how many times, where, when, and why. This provides any outside observer with a paper trail that can be traced back to the cop in question, ensuring that the cop can he held accountable for their actions.

Hell, that's the case with all paperwork. Why do cops have to sign in when they go on duty, or come off? So that if an incident occurs, investigators can look over the records and work out who was where, when, and what they were doing. If Officer Parker is alleged to have shot an innocent man on Main Street at 11am on 12/04/2014, then investigators can look through the records and see if the evidence matches the claims. Maybe it doesn't - maybe the records show that Officer Parker was ticketing speeding motorists on the Northern Bypass at the time, and that he has a spotless disciplinary record. Or maybe he really was on patrol on Main Street at the time the alleged incident occurred, and when he handed in his gun at the end of his shift, there was a bullet missing from its magazine which he didn't report discharging. Either way, Officer Parker's innocence or guilt could be readily ascertained from the paperwork that he was required, by law, to fill out.

But hey, you'd rather we gave masked vigilantes free reign over our society, to enforce the law however they pleased, with no accountability whatsoever. I'm baffled that you can't see what a terrible, terrible, terrible idea that is.

And yes, I admit that a normal human police officer would struggle to deal with superhuman criminals. But surely the solution would be to start recruiting superhumans into the police service?

EDIT: Oh and, just how long do you really think it takes to fill out an incident report? These are documents intended as clear, concise accounts of events as an officer recalls them, clearly defining the context of the incident, the behaviour of the suspect (and others, where applicable), and the reasoning that the officer used to justify their actions at the time. They're not composing short stories about how the light played upon the San Diego rooftops, as Shankums McGee lay dying in an alleyway with a police-issue 9mm round buried in his left lung. Bureaucracy within police services is nowhere near as crippling as you seem to think it is.

edited 23rd Oct '14 10:43:20 AM by Tungsten74

You jumping skills are truly top notch. Veritably olympian level. Jumping to conclusions could be your super-power. They could call you The Fantastic Conclusion-Jumper. Like the Amazing Spider-Man, non?

I'm just throwing out ideas, here. Suggesting a reason for X example. At exactly what point did I say superheroes should not be subject to any accountability whatsoever?

How much time does it take to fill out an accident report? More time than it takes Joker to go on a murder spree while Batman has to account for why he broke Penguin's jaw and provide a clear, concise accounts of events as Batman recalls them, clearly defining the context of the incident (some terrible bird related crime, no doubt), the behavior of the Penguin (he was probably making a bird pun or two whilst brandishing his deadly umbrella), and the reasoning that Batman used to justify breaking Penguin's jaw at the time.

Sounds like a short story if I ever heard one, be it about the events or the color of raindrops in the afternoon sun.

What benefit carrying a badge? So Da Chief can tell you you better clean up your act because you're a loose cannon and your world-weary partner can comment that he's getting too old for this shit.

If the hero is found to have broken the law then they, being a hero, would surely turn themselves over to the proper authorities for summary judgement.

Police already have a bad reputation, why compound that problem by adding someone who can crush a car into the size of a football with his bare hands?

Let the government handle it. The resident Nick Fury expy. Bald Black Leader Guy. David Hasselhoff.

edited 23rd Oct '14 2:31:04 PM by Eagal

Sorry. I didn't mean to blow up on you in particular, Eagal. It's just that I just now realised how absurd the concept of "superheroes vs. supervillains" is, so I'm a bit high on revelation at the moment. The more I think about the whole idea, the more problems I notice, and I mistook your curt responses for smug self-assurance. Again, I sincerely apologise, and will attempt to address your points in as courteous a manner as I can.

You suggested that superheroes would be preferable to police because the police might be corrupt. When I pointed out the problems with assuming moral fortitude in a vigilante just because they're a vigilante, you suggested that superheroes would be better than police because they wouldn't be bogged down by bureaucracy. Except, that doesn't follow: paperwork works to combat corruption, by holding law enforcement personnel accountable for their actions. A lack of paperwork and reporting would mean a vigilante would be more likely to become corrupt or overstep their limits, not less.

If the situation in Gotham City is so bad that Batcop can't spare a few hours to fill out some forms, because some clown-obsessed maniac will get away with mass murder, then that's the point where you declare "fuck the police", send in the army and instate Martial Law. That's not "a wretched hive of scum and villainy", that's a bona fide warzone.

Real-world crime is not like that. There are not a million mad terrorists out to burn the world every minute of every day. Police work, much like military work, consists of long, long periods of nothing much happening, with all the exciting bits you see on TV (car chases, bank robberies, spree killers, etc.) being relatively rare. There's plenty of time for accounting and reporting in-between the excitement.

Incidentally, a world where there were a million mad terrorists out to burn the world every minute of every day would quickly stop looking like our own. Goodbye civil liberties, hello police-state... but that's a different topic.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this comment. I already outlined the benefits of being a police officer vs. being a vigilante in my first post. As for maverick cops, please see my earlier point about the value of paper trails. Regulations exist for a reason.

Expecting vigilantes to just hand themselves in when they go overboard, is... how to put this kindly... hopelessly optimistic. The honour system might work for roadside sales, but it's really not a good basis for legal culpability. See my previous point about assuming the best of vigilantes.

Also, wouldn't Batman have broken the law on his very first night on the prowl? I mean, Batman sees a woman in a dark alley being mugged, so he swoops in and beats up the mugger, right? But any decent lawyer could easily spin that as common assault. Premeditated, even, given that Batman was wearing body armour at the time, and was clearly expecting to get into a fight. Keen to quell any vigilantism before it inspires other members of the public, the Gotham courts issue an arrest warrant the next day. The law says Batman is guilty, or at least wanted for interview. Does he surrender himself?

Real-world police, at least in America, have been unpopular lately because of A. institutionalised racism, and B. heavy militarization, with cops using grossly disproportionate force against unarmed civilian protestors. But the OP implied a world where people with superpowers are relatively common. Faced with civilians that could start flinging lightning or spewing bees at a moment's notice, I feel that the police recruiting supers would be a perfectly reasonable escalation of force. It would also be good for human-metahuman relations, methinks, to have some supers out on patrol in uniform. Let the humans see that the supers are folks just like them, and let the supers see that they have nothing to fear from the police.

I don't understand what you're getting at here, either. Are you agreeing with me? “Let the government handle it” is pretty much exactly what I've been saying all this time, with the addition that if someone wanted to help the government “handle it”, they'd be better off joining one of the pre-existing law enforcement agencies, instead of forming a vigilante team. Or by giving tip-offs to the FBI, joining an advocacy group, engaging in investigative journalism and whistle-blowing, voting for reformist politicians, or trying to get elected themselves. Any of those options would be better than taking the law into their own hands.

Or... are you advocating forming specialist military units? Sorry, I'm jumping to conclusions again. I just can't parse what point you're trying to make.

Again, I apologize for my hostility earlier (and probably in this post, too). I'm actually grateful for your points: they give me something to respond to, and argue against. It's just... the OP asked a question: Why be a superhero? I took that question to heart, and really dug down and thought about it. And my conclusion is: there is no good reason to become a superhero. At least not in any lawful, democratic society.

edited 24th Oct '14 7:58:44 AM by Tungsten74

Other possibilities: There could be a special SWAT-style team that deals with superhuman threats, similar to Metropolis' SCU or Chicago's Special Investigations.

Or, for that matter, have a group similar to the XSE: A squad of superhuman cops that deal specifically with superhuman threats.

After all, if heroes have been around long enough, ideas like this have probably been suggested by others in-universe.

I remember a Garth Enis comic roughly similar to this; however, it was a hooker who got superpowers instead of Johnny Labrat. She turned out to be just as brutal as the villains the not-justice leauge were pitted against; even using her powers for petty revenge at one point. If someone doesn't want to superhero, making them is a way to get bit in the ass.

edited 30th Oct '14 12:22:45 PM by dvorak

Not to take away from the superpowered discussion at hand, but I'm facing a similar problem getting started with a superhero story of my own, this time involving a non-powered female hero, who throws on the suit and becomes a vigilante after her best friend is raped and murdered by an unknown serial killer. Like Batman, she comes from a wealthy family, thus explaining how she gets the means to fight crime, but aside from her friend's murder and a corrupt police force, the why is harder to figure out. The hero's sister (who finds out her identity early on) makes a point of acknowledging the inherent absurdity of the logic (a Missing Steps Plan, basically), but beyond that, I'm not sure how to explain why the hero does what she does. Of course, I've considered simply brushing it off with a few lines of dialogue, since it's not absolutely essential to the plot (which is more about the effects, good and bad, of such a vigilante entering the scene), but I still think it'd be better to have a meatier, more believable explanation than "because the plot requires it." Thoughts?

edited 2nd Nov '14 10:05:23 PM by shrikecatcher

If you can't think of a real good reason to wear a mask beside "Not getting I Ded by mobsters/corrupt cops", I can't either. That should do, right?

True, but I think I was more getting at why become a superhero in the first place, which is less easily explained than why one would hide their identity after the decision has already been made. The aforementioned Missing Steps Plan:

1. Suffer violent trauma 2. ??? 3. Become superhero!

At present, my thinking is that she takes to the streets to fight crime after police capture the wrong man in searching for her friend's murderer, and this (unsuccessful) search for the killer on her own morphs into a broader desire to take down crime in general as the rich girl sees first-hand what the less fortunate have to deal with everyday. Then again, maybe that's sufficient explanation right there.

It's worth noting that these stories (a planned series) will be told mostly from the sister's POV, with the first book beginning when she arrives in the city to attend college and after the costumed vigilante has already been active for a few months or so. The series continues, with the helpful use of Time Skips, for a few years after that, as the hero loses and gains friends and family, and life in the city changes for better or worse, directly or indirectly as a result of her own vigilantism.

I'd like to point out that at least one or two versions of the Flash are also CS Is as their day jobs. So joining the police, or already being on the police force when you get your powers (or working with them, I think the status of CS Is differs from region to region) is a fairly reasonable place to go with a story. Hell, there's dozens of nearly forgotten golden age superheroes who were police men who decided to wear a costume in their off time and that's how they knew something was going down.

Also yes, the point of masks is typically to cover up your identity. It's not something that needs a complicated explanation, really. Unless said mask is also somehow the source of your powers, in which case it's also not a complicated explanation to explain the powered artifact.

edited 2nd Nov '14 11:14:45 PM by AceofSpades

Well, if it's from the sister's POV, then you don't really have to explain why. Just have the viewpoint be just as confused as you are and the superhero refuse to explain how she came to that conclusion, and the closest to that have her express utter confusion and exasperation that her sister just doesn't seem to get this whole super thing.