Needs Help (titles crowner 8/15/14): Honorable Marriage Proposal

(Reposted from Trope Talk at the suggestion of a board member there.)

I recently posted in Lost & Found looking for a trope to fit this common situation: a man and a woman are thrown into a situation where they spend a significant amount of time alone together, to the point where the woman's reputation would be ruined. As a matter of honor (and not necessarily for any other reason), the man offers to marry her in order to save her reputation. This usually applies to stories set sometime in the past, when a woman's sexual reputation was a life-shaping matter. Someone suggested Honorable Marriage Proposal, and that's close, except that the definition specifies that the woman is pregnant by someone else.

"Honorable Marriage Proposal" as a trope name seems like it ought to be able to fit the situation I'm looking for; can the definition be expanded to include it (and if so, who makes the change)? Should HMP be changed to a supertrope, with both the pregnancy situation and the "compromised" situation as subtropes? Or should the "compromised" version be a new sister trope to HMP?

edited 2nd Jul '14 12:27:30 PM by jayoungr

To me, Honorable Marriage Proposal as a name sounds like it should be the Missing Supertrope for any time one character offers to marry another to save the second's reputation. That would include the type of situation you're talking about as well as "she's pregnant and unmarried".

edited 2nd Jul '14 12:57:41 PM by Madrugada

I would support making it into a super trope. I would suggest it also cover Shotgun Wedding.

edited 2nd Jul '14 1:01:58 PM by rexpensive

Yes, Shotgun Wedding would be another subtrope.

Let me amend the laconic description I used in my earlier post: When one character marries, or offers to marry, a second character to preserve, protect, or salvage her reputation or honor.

edited 2nd Jul '14 1:34:45 PM by Madrugada

Should it be redefined to a supertrope, or transplanted to one?

I would say redefined. The current name is perfect for the supertrope. The subtrope "a male character offers to marry a female character because she's pregnant even though he knows he isn't the father" — I'm having trouble coming up with a Clear Concise Witty name for it, frankly.

Flip it around to the female perspective, and say that the man who agrees to do so is usually portrayed as noble?

• Marriage To Avoid Single Motherhood

Not really happy with the name suggestion, but flipping the perspective reduces the trope requirements in this case.

Yeah, the perspective could be flipped, but the problem I see with doing that is that the trope is almost always played with the male as the focus character — it's about him, not her. And making the name require pregnancy leaves us with no place for the other subtrope, where he's making the offer to redeem her honor because there's the assumption or suspicion that she had been getting busy with him even if she hadn't been and or had been with someone else but isn't pregnant. (For instance, in The Belgariad, Lelldorin is left behind at a noble's home to recover from a serious injury. He's nursed by, and falls in love with, the noble's daughter, Ariana, who falls in love right back at him. When he wants to leave to rejoin the rest of the True Companions, Ariana insists on going with him. But if she travels alone with him, it will be assumed that he's deflowered her (he hasn't) so he marries her so they can travel together with no stain to her honor.

edited 2nd Jul '14 8:11:24 PM by Madrugada

Yeah, I think a redefinition sounds like the best idea. As it is, it's sort of needlessly specific. But on the other hand, there are a lot of examples of it, so I'm not sure.

Yeah, no.

Wait, let me start over...

The current name should be redefined to be the currently-missing supertrope.

The current definition should be transplanted to a new name as a new subtrope.

The Lost Lenore is still a trope about him as the focus character, even though the trope requirements are about the woman.

(Edit: my two posts are both regarding the sub trope. That's what you expressed concern with, so that's what I'm trying to help. The supertrope is too clear to bother arguing about.)

edited 3rd Jul '14 4:23:18 AM by crazysamaritan

Hmm, for a new subtrope covering the pregnancy thing, how about Give the Baby a Father? That's often how the honorable proposals are phrased. The only thing is to be sure it doesn't cause confusion with the situation where a man marries a widow with a baby...but maybe it's flexible enough to include those situations anyway?

What about Father For The Unborn?

Well, there is "Make Her An Honest Woman" for marrying a woman the man has slept with.

Sometimes the baby is already born by the time the proposal happens, though. Volunteer Father, maybe?

That could be another subtrope of Honorable Marriage Proposal.

edited 7th Jul '14 12:06:58 PM by jayoungr

Volunteer Dad would be even better.

I think that's too ambiguous. I can easily see people thinking that that's a dad who volunteers for something to do with their kids — like softball coach, or fieldtrip chaperone, or the like.

Give The Baby A Name is another phrase used to indicate "He married her because she was pregnant, even though he isn't (or doesn't think he is) the father."

Is Volunteer To Be A Dad too wordy?

Voluntary Dad is specifically referring to his parental position.

Both of those last two sound like they're about adoption, and nothing about marriage.

edited 7th Jul '14 9:53:51 PM by shimaspawn

I think I still like Give the Baby a Father or Give The Baby A Name.

What's the next step? Does someone make a YKTTW?

Well, nothing about babies is going to fit with the scenario that the OP outlined. In fact, the trope he's talking about has nothing to do with anyone getting pregnant at all. Losing your virginity, or even the idea that you might have maybe kisssed someone depending on the time period is all that's needed.

Yes, there are at least two subtropes.

Right now, the proposal is to keep Honorable Marriage Proposal as a supertrope to cover "an offer of marriage to preserve or protect someone's honor, in general", including any where there's no pregnancy. That would be where the one outlined in the OP would go. (what I suggested in Post #10)

One of the subtropes is "Man offers to marry a pregnant woman, despite knowing or believing that the baby isn't his." That's the one we're looking for a name for right now.

edited 8th Jul '14 7:49:26 PM by Madrugada

Some possibilities: Becoming The Daddy, Choosing To Be Daddy, Assuming The Dad Role

edited 9th Jul '14 4:04:24 AM by Willbyr

None of those sound like they're limited to marriage.