Mass Effect General Discussion (spoilers)

You tyrant.

Though not sure I see the problem with Ashley there, really. If you're being professional, you probably should've balked at the whole "here is my entire backstory" rather than the short two sentences of "I believe in God. That's not a problem, is it?" ME1 squadmates will go on whole speeches if you don't stop them.

Plus, discussing potential leaks on the big prototype spaceship is a pretty professional matter. They're not Alliance, they don't have any patriotic loyalty to it, so a bit of concern is worth having, and you'd be a poor commander to ignore the issue completely. Though arguably it does go to points of paranoia sometimes, like with not trusting Liara about her mother, and a degree of trust is necessary for operations. She doesn't insult anyone to their faces, however.

One of the students, Jason Prangley, will step up and take charge to a degree.

edited 22nd May '15 6:06:53 AM by Lavaeolus

Prangsley, who dies trying to get Rodriguez to safety.

Also, Nikkolas though that revealing to the admiral board what Rael'Zorah did was the right thing to do, and was confused by Tali breaking down over that. I would take his recomendations over moral issues in these games with a grain of salt.

Eh, covering up the matter does seem a bit dodgy. I think it's a scenario in which you could probably reframe the choice and swap the Paragon/Renegade around: tell the truth, or lie to protect your teammate.

Though the overarching matter of the geth conflict does complicate things.

edited 22nd May '15 6:01:25 AM by Lavaeolus

Dunno if you were reading my ME 1 playthrough but, the way I saw it, I wasn't Alliance. I was a Spectre first and foremost. It's why I told that one SA officer to shove it when he wanted to inspect the Normandy.

Point is, Ash's whole backstory seemed to suggest she was Humanity First and I was having none of that. This was a "multicultural" mission to stop a madman and Human-Alien grudges shouldn't matter.

Besides, she didn't phrase it right. If she wanted to get me on her side, she should have said something like "You've talked to Wrex. You know he's an amoral money-grubbing son-of-a-bitch, right?" And that was true, and could easily lead to a dangerous leak if someone got to him.

But she didn't say that. She just said, paraphrasing, "we got aliens on board a HUMAN ship." (even though I'm pretty sure it was built by turians so Garrus is no threat)

And that leaves Liara, who was beyond innocent and pure in the first game and couldn't be a danger or spy even if she wanted to be.

Oh and Tali. I kinda always forget she exists.

Tali is really weird. Don't understand the fandom obsession with her. Whenever I think of a list of my favrotie ME companions, I'll actually think of the ones I actively hate before I even remember she's there. It'll be like "Man, I love Miranda, and hate Samara. And then Jack was great too but Jacob was really forgettable. Oh...and Tali is there I guess."

edited 22nd May '15 6:12:21 AM by Nikkolas

I think really Shepard's a mix of both, at least in the first and third games. You've got the authority of the Council behind you, and you do their missions, but the Alliance heavily backed your nomination and you represent humanity as a whole. They also provided you with a ship (and not just any ship, the most advanced warship they have), and provided you with your core crew (that's both Ashley and Kaidan, and all of the staff members up to the doctor, the pilot, the engineers, to the random ensigns).

That's more obvious in hindsight. It's not hard to just pretend to be innocent. Liara also does go on to become the world's biggest Shadow Broker and key figure of the underworld, though that's later.

Yeah, this is true, though theoretically Garrus could leak some of its more human workings. I think the ship is primarily Alliance? It's only crewed by Alliance people, at least.

edited 22nd May '15 6:18:40 AM by Lavaeolus

Well when it comes right down to it, I didn't like any of the squadmates much in ME 1 except Wrex and Liara. Kaidan was just whatever and Ash actively rubbed me the wrong way. I know some people say she wasn't racist, or specist or whatever you want to call it, but it felt like she was to me and I didn't like that.

Why I let her die.

I liked the crew. Well except Ash I guess. Garrus was rad and Tali was lovely. Liara was...eh. I guess I can see why I went for Kaidan instead.

Joker's pretty rad though. He's voiced by Seth Green too, that's pretty fucking grand.

I liked the crew well enough, but I didn't really "love" any of them — though I did have a bit of fondness for Garrus and Wrex. They all had potential, but they weren't really realized. Ashley was one exception, though I still didn't really love her, in that she felt a lot more real. She liked Tennyson, she believed in God, and she had a pretty real if somewhat stereotypical Renegadey personality.

I ultimately went saved Kaidan, however, partly because he was more amenable, but mostly because I wanted to see my romance through, had no interest in Liara (partly this was that I didn't like her VA until the second game) and her incredibly sudden romantic attachment, and sometimes I like to try and see a different side to characters I don't know well.

I dunno, I just felt the writing level skyrocketed in 2 and 3. I went into ME with everyone singing Garrus' praises but I only started to like him in 2. There are just so many good characters in 2.

Believe me, I started the Trilogy wondering "why is ME 1 the only entry I never hear anything about? I hear 2's praises constantly and the controversy of 3 but nobody ever talks about 1 much anymore" After playing them, I can see why.

edited 22nd May '15 7:10:01 AM by Nikkolas

The only squadmate in Mass Effect 1 I disliked was Ashley. Garrus and Tali never grabbed me but neither are bad. Kaiden, Liara, and Wrex are my most liked.

I think that's pretty much the overall consensus. I've criticised the overarching story before, but the specific character writing was way better in the later games.

Mordin, for instance, is far more than a talking codex about salarians or the Genophage, and I'm not sure you could say that about first game's Tali. ...Well, obviously, she'd be about the quarians, not the Genophage.

I think a lot of love for Tali went into her second appearance, especially for those who romanced her. It likely helped she was a returning face, which made it easier to quickly befriend her. Also, maybe the voice acting.

edited 22nd May '15 7:15:23 AM by Lavaeolus

Tali in ME 1 is really interesting, because I continuously expected her to be paragon, but she's actually very renegade among the right people. The squadmates seem to be on a spectrum from most paragon to most renegade. It goes from super-paragon Kaidan > Liara > Garrus > Tali > Ashley > Wrex. I liked that, because it gave a small dimension to Tali's character rather than just her literally being Quarians Incarnate.

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Ye, Tali's dialog options kinda often point to renegade stuff even though she seems nice enough to be paragon

"We could talk about how you don't have an immune system, or-"

"I have a shotgun."

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Garrus/Tali is the best.

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Garrus/Tali/Shep OT3

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Man. I wish ME 2 actually had party banter, because that conversation alone proves it could have been great.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

ME 2's characters are great, but the lack on interaction with characters besides Shepard cripples many of those characters for me. You have no idea how much I wished EDI and Legion spoke more often.

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Yeah, and that's largely what makes me prefer ME 3 over it. You party members actually talk to each other! They don't just say variations on the exact same lines at very obviously scripted instances.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Sometimes I like to play around in Scrivener and write up possible character dialogue. I wrote up an entire situation where Kal'Reegar was a squadmate and interacted with the other characters, too.

edited 22nd May '15 8:25:07 AM by CalamityJane

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Seriously, that's the biggest issue I have with 2 (well, and the combat being inferior to 3's so it is hard to come back to it).

I mean, if I bring Mordin and Grunt together, I'd like to see an annoyed Grunt over what kind of comments he is overhearing. If I bring Thane and Samara, I'd like to see a philosophical debate.

3 has 8 total squadmates (although Ashley and Kaidan are quite incompatible, not sure if they have dialogue), with 28 possible squad combinations (27 actually, again, gotta test both Virmire people to see how they handle a mission together). 3 has 12 total squadmates, and 66 possible combinations (discounting Morinth, which acts as Samara anyway, except on VERY specific cases).

It would take a bit more of coding, but all in all, some work there, and clever writting, would have done it.

(Also, imagine, Kal'Reegar and Nyreen as potential squadmates, they go in a mission, and Shepard is all "this is familiar, but something is off").

edited 22nd May '15 10:25:33 AM by Eriorguez

I really am baffled at how Bioware can make such great characters like Kal'Reegar and Nyreen Kandros, and then just kill them off? As small character it's almost impossible for them to have reasonable pathos through their deaths. Nyreen seems to die stupidly, and Kal dies off-screen, and all the player feels is annoyance or anger. Or at least, that's all I feel when I read how Kal "died a hero" or watch Nyreen put up a suicide bubble.

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x7 Garrus/Tali/Kaidan/M!Shep OT4

The only true relationship that Shepard can have is being single and being best friends with Garrus . Everything else is a falsehood. Because Garrus + single Shep as brother and brother/sister (not biologically, just in terms of friendship) FTW!

And it looks like I was right. People went after me for my ending choice. Enough on that though. ME 3's ending is controversial enough.

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Sure. I'mw atching your ME 1 playthrough video. I mean other than skipping Eden Prime and all that. The frame rate judders a bit ingame but the menus work fine and using the console to swap party members on the spot is great.