East Asia News & Politics Thread: China, South Korea, Japan...

Interesting...

I am wondering how much of that is because of Japan though?

edited 6th Jul '14 6:03:18 AM by IraTheSquire

I believe most of it is due to being mutually freaked out by North Korea.

Indeed. Most of that problem with North Korea dates back to the Cold War when they started to kidnap Japanese nationals.

Either way, Japan's so-called 'new nationalism' has certainly given South Korea and China a significant basis for some common ideological ground. I suspect that will be useful for the two leaders if they want to deepen the relationship between their countries or support each other more strongly on regional issues.

edited 6th Jul '14 7:16:08 AM by editerguy

Hmm. Various countries in the region uncomfortable with Japan militarizing. Japan militarizing because they're uncomfortable with China, Russia, and North Korea (to wildly varying degrees between those three, mind). Just about everybody is uncomfortable with North Korea.

So yeah, foreign politics as normal. There was a time that the US and UK were wary about each other expanding their militaries (the subject of arms treaties in the 1920s and 1930s, actually), despite various common interests.

So, do the US support Japan re-militarizing or not? Aren't there Bataan Death March veterans angry that Japan is re-militarizing given the fact Abe denies war crimes, Bataan Death March included (I apologize for mentioning war crimes)?

edited 10th Jul '14 2:17:37 AM by HallowHawk

We rearmed Germany in the aftermath of WWII, we directly backed the Soviet Union during WWII, I'm not sure why everyone is so stunned we might not be hesitant for Japan to have a military to support our interests several generations later.

EDIT: Several days later, I realize I typed about the opposite of what I meant to type.

edited 10th Jul '14 3:27:03 AM by AFP

Indeed. Most of the descendants of Filipino soldiers who fought in WWII are quick to forgive Japan for what they did. They are aware of what they did. If you're baffled by this, it's due to the local culture (thanks to Spanish colonialism) that the majority forgave them.

Only ones who bother are comfort women survivors and the leftward. Even then, they're starting to get old. Haven't heard any resentment from any WWII soldier survivors.

A Chicken Little Post on China

I was referring to Americans who were also forced to march from Bataan to Tarlac. Nice points though.

True, but "American" soldiers taken prisoner at Bataan were also of Filipino descent since at the time, the Philippines was administered as part of America, so that point can be taken too.

I don't know about those of Caucasian origin though...

There were both Filipino and mainlander Americans taken prisoner in the Philippines early in the war. Quite a few ended up fighting a guerrilla campaign for the next few years as well.

@Hallow Hawk: Those "Caucasian" Americans most probably 'forgave' Japan already. It's been a long time now and it's most likely also a painful memory for them. "Getting over it" is part of being able to cope with their past experience.

Let's put it this way. The ignorant American idiots full of stupidity and with no capacity for logical thinking on Twitter that say "THAT'S FOR PEARL HARBOR, JAPS!" during the 2011 earthquake and tsunami are obviously not high-ranking US government officials. ALL statements that the Chinese government makes, through their high-ranking officials, are roughly of that same vein, "We will never forget your evilness in the past, you evil empire of evil!" "We shall make you pay for your evil deeds, you evildoer of evil of the evil empire of evil!"

edited 10th Jul '14 3:47:44 AM by entropy13

I think that, generally, the manner in which China and South Korea are criticising the Japanese government's current stance on issues such as comfort women is understandable and reasonable. It would probably be more productive for Japan to be less revisionist and jingoistic.

Since China sent rescue workers to Japan following the earthquake, equating China's attitude to mocking Japanese earthquake victims seems silly.

edited 10th Jul '14 5:19:29 AM by editerguy

Whether or not China sent aid to Japan is irrelevant because obviously the "equivalency" of the two is in their reasoning behind saying those statements. I mean, why would "THAT QUAKE IS FOR PEARL HARBOR" be suddenly the same as "You are pure evil of evil, you evil empire of evil, we will never forget your evilness in the past"?

I didn't find that obvious, sorry. I got the impression you meant both views are equivalent in terms of being irrationally malevolent.

China's perspective of the Japanese Empire's actions does not seem connected to the Pearl Harbour comments. The idea that an earthquake was sent as a 70-year-late punishment for military bombings is not a perspective so much as it's completely delusional.

I don't want to start some analysis of how 'evil' Japan was. I don't see the benefit, though, in Japan alienating the other main developed Asian democracy and US ally (SK) out of pure hardcore nationalism.

edited 10th Jul '14 6:25:38 AM by editerguy

After losing an only child, Chinese parents face old age alone

I wouldn't even say that it's "hardcore nationalism" given that the textbook incident years ago show that even the Japanese civilians are against that kind of history revisionism.

It's just that those right-winged minority in Japan is a bit too loud.

I don't know if you can divorce the PRC government and her people in this issue though. I have no study to back this, but back when I was in Hong Kong I felt a strong sentiment that the PRC government was being ''too wussy" about Japan. And if that's what got filtered through the borders (Hong Kong was still a colony back then) I cannot imagine how the average mainland Chinese feel about it.

edited 10th Jul '14 4:28:33 PM by IraTheSquire

Isolating Japan By Other Means - A China-South Korean Free Trade Agreement would boost Seoul even as it undercut Tokyo.

My posts are only meant to be about the stance of the Japanese government.

Interesting article, though I still wonder just how long this grudge towards Japan is gonna last.

I posted this in the Asian Maritime thread, so I thought I'd share it here:

Having looked up just what Unit 731 did and the like, while I feel nothing but animosity towards the people that did it, I can't bring myself to blame Japan for it. After all, I highly doubt that those who participated in it where truly upholding Japanese values and such, and some have even expressed remorse for their actions. Again, not trying to whitewash their actions (human experimentation is one of the most horrific crimes you can commit), but I can't hate a country's populace for the actions of a few. After all, I love Japan, but that also means that I should condemn its mistakes, so as to better appreciate what it has become.

I just wish that Japan would realize that it needs to face the facts and learn from their actions, and that China would let go of this hatred it has been harboring for 70+ years. Only then will they be able to more easily come up with an agreement regarding this whole island debate. Otherwise, both countries are going to be, in the words of Team America, "all covered in ****".

Just wanted to share some thoughts from my mind, which is a slight Japanophile.

Though I gotta say, when you have people from China (and Korea) commenting like this:

"During the 70s the older generation was rather conscious about the wrongdoings Japanese did in Asia, they tried not to touch the subject, otherwise they always admitted it was bad and it was the wrong thing to do, but nowadays the people like Abe has never gone thru the war, yet they behave worse than those had gone thru the war. The current generations Japanese are more dangerous than ever to China and Asia, unfortunately other than Chinese and Korean, non of other Asian cares, they even welcome the Japanese lunaticness.

China must prepare for the Japanese going to repeat what their war criminal forebear did to China since Meiji, Chinese only have themselves to blame if they failed to defeat the Japanese aggression next time."

"Throughout history, the Chinese and the Koreans have better relationship with each other than the barbaric Japanese who invaded and killed millions of the Chinese and Korean without a sense of humanity and conscience. We hope one day the Japanese will suffer the same fate of pain and suffering as well."

I begin to wonder if peace between the two will ever happen. And I find it ironic that for all of their condemnation towards Japan for their actions in WWII, China is slowly starting to become a mirror image of said nation in terms of ideology and the like during WWII.

edited 14th Jul '14 12:43:43 AM by LDragon2

Strangely enough, China and Japan had a rather friendly post-war relationship until the last decade, when nationalism began to resurface in both countries. In fact, as late as 2002, the Japanese public had a favorable impression of China, something that has become almost unthinkable just a decade later.

It is really unfortunate in that case. Wonder what caused all this nationalistic preference?

On that note, do you think that Japan is gonna be hurt in the long run by the whole China-Korea trade partnership deal they have? It seems like those two really want Japan to suffer.

edited 14th Jul '14 1:49:42 AM by LDragon2

Well, here is an article noting the South Korean president's stance on the issue.

Here is a separate article which covers the feelings of one of the surviving comfort women and her view on Japan's response to their wartime activities.

As developed East Asian democracies, South Korea and Japan seem to have a lot in common (compared to China), so I doubt animosity is particularly beneficial to either of them.

Without in any way trying to make light of the experiences of comfort women like Yi Ok-seon, I imagine that President Park's comparatively mild wishes are more indicative of the way forward.

edited 14th Jul '14 4:27:20 AM by editerguy

They also have a dispute over some islands (Dokdo/Takeshima/Liancourt Rocks), though.