Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire (Hoenn Remakes for the 3DS)

Yeah, those guys were who I was referring to. I also really liked colress. Crazy amoral scientists are the best.

Zinnia is super pretentious, yeah. "I'm a visionary from an ancient sect with perspective that you'll never understand, so I'll just make vague but superior comments about being morally better than you while doing whatever I want. Instead of helping, I'll marginalize all your attempts to fix things while lecturing you about how there's 'a better way,' again for reasons I don't bother to explain and without elaborating about what that better way actually is."

I think it felt a bit worse with her because I got the impression we were supposed to identify with her in some way. At the very end we find out she lost someone important to her apparently, so there's that I guess, but she's really just a mysterious idealist for the sake of having another mysterious idealist archetype.

She reminded me of how characters in Black and White rambled on about "truth" and "ideals" (when they weren't rambling on about being "strong") and often had pseudo-philosophical speeches that sounded profound but didn't actually mean anything. And then Steven (who already had a problem with that) and Wallace started getting in the act too, and the whole thing just came off as rather boring to me.

It didn't help that there were some points where you had to go somewhere only for nothing of consequence to actually happen, though I suppose you were intended to do Delta Episode in between doing other things.

edited 26th Mar '15 12:27:18 PM by KnownUnknown

Confession: I haven't beaten OR AS yet. Haven't even reached Wallace. But that reminds me of how, in BW, the sages literally recite proverbs that are utter nonsense in context, for no real reason except it makes them seem Sage-y, so I can totally see her being an insufferable N 2.0.

Remember that the likes of N and Zinnia are villains more than not, and they're not particularly mentally stable. They may not be Ghetsis or even Giovanni levels of evil, and they may have a point somewhere down the line, but ultimately I don't think you're supposed to agree with or root for them.

Zinnia did not come off as a villain to me, more like an anti-hero whose cause was at odds with the protags. She's neutral at worst.

The six sages are the most pretentious characters in pokemon ever. I like Colress but he's the biggest Karma Houdini yet.

Zinnia was a massive Jerkass all around. She never actually proved she was right concerning the whole alternate dimension thing (we, not the characters, know it's right because of The Law of Conservation of Detail) and nearly screwed over the planet twice because she didn't know Rayquaza had run out of meteor energy. If the player wasn't around the entire planet would have been fucked.

The only problem I have with Zinnia is that she does that thing I would do in writing whenever a story has a character that knows everything and could fast-track the plot if they told everyone. That is, she's really vague and mysterious for no good reason.

If she told you everything from start you could go though everything (fight Courtney/Matthew, fight Wallace, Sky Tower and Rayquaza) much quicker. The only reason she doesn't is because Delta Episode would be shorter, without any "mystery" or much conflict between Zinnia and Steven.

They should have come up with a better reason why she couldn't work directly with you from the start, and it would have been fine.

edited 26th Mar '15 2:07:59 PM by KuroBaraHime

Then again the fact that Hoenn as a whole and that rocket they wanted to use are all Powered by a Forsaken Child kinda made me take her side, even though her alternate dimension reasoning was kinda bullshit.

And because those games exist. She's describing the original games, where Mega Evolution wasn't a thing and events transpired somewhat differently as a result. Her incredibly ham-fisted line is establishing that the remake takes place in an alternate universe to the previous games in the franchise - except XY, of course.

It's a subtle method of establishing a reboot without officially rebooting. I wouldn't be surprised if the inevitable remake of DPP builds on it, given Gen IV's particular subject matter.

edited 26th Mar '15 2:47:57 PM by TobiasDrake

Not to mention Gen V.

Wait since when is N a villain? I was under the impression that he was a misguided hero.

Since he was the public leader of Team Plasma that he knew was actively stealing Pokemon and committing criminal activities. His heart may have been in the right place, and he probably didn't know about everything that went on, but he is still partially culpable in what they did.

I'd consider him more an Anti-Villain antagonist than an outright villain.

N is an antivillain in the first games and the manga, and more heroic in the second games and the anime.

Lots of Zinnia's actions are easier to swallow if you consider her more of an antagonist than a protagonist, though from her final scenes I got the sneaking suspicion Game Freak intended her as "true hero/mentor of the story all along" kind of character that the other characters only thought was antagonistic because they're misguided. Which has problems, for a lot of the reasons you guys have been pointing out.

That said, I think there's at least one line (from her mother/the old woman, iirc) that hints that she might be kind of unstable and is a Well-Intentioned Extremist, but then nothing comes of it and the story actually runs with the opposite with her character, in as much as we get solid characterization or plot for her anyway (which is very little).

edited 27th Mar '15 1:08:14 AM by KnownUnknown

Mysterious for being mysterious's sake, than. Those kind of characters never work well but tend to be well received anyway, so N will probably get a 3rd incarnation soon.

• BROWN: It is I, the mysterious Brown! You all suck and your plans are stupid for reasons I shan't elaborate! The true revelations of life elude you! Quit being assholes! Away! *flees*
• RED: ...the hell was that?
• BLUE: I don't know. You really do suck, though.

EDIT: ...what if "Smell ya later" was Blue passive-aggressively telling Red that he's at the appropriate age to start using deodorant?

edited 27th Mar '15 7:42:23 AM by TobiasDrake

Or that he will be soon.

He doesn't smell him yet. But he will later. Once he's matured enough to be the champ.

Wow, something seriously weird just happened - I'm that evil bastard who puts random crap he's caught on Wonder Trade.

I did not expect to ever receive something back that I'd put on it! There cannot be that many people with the trainer name Addy who have traded a level 8 Naive Tailow. Has to have been mine.

I feel an odd obligation to the thing now...

Did it have the same trainer ID as yours?

edited 29th Mar '15 2:55:07 AM by TroperNo9001

Yes, the very same one. And it had to be the one from a Wondertrade because I'd traded the only one I had.

In the same session I managed to get a Shiny Arceus! It was probably cloned, but is nonetheless legit, being from the Movie 15 event. Very happy with that!

edited 29th Mar '15 5:13:40 AM by CaissasDeathAngel

I need Arceus, Shaymin, Meloetta, and Manaphy to be completely done with the 'dex—maybe I should go on Wonder Trade more often. :P Till then I might have to create very realistic hacks on Black2 and try to get them to Pokebank.

Name him, feed him, never leave him

The former isn't allowed

So, did anyone else immediately think of Bill Cipher during the scene where Deoxys first reveals itself?

edited 30th Mar '15 10:47:20 PM by KnownUnknown