General Autism Discussion

I would add to that this as well—"if you agree on literally everything, something is wrong." My brother and his ex never had a single disagreement, or so he thought. Then she went to stay with her parents for a while, morphed into a different person, and promptly cheated on him. As it turns out, the girl was completely spineless and simply morphed the people around her. When the two of them were living together, she would mirror his opinions, when she was with her parents, who didn't like him, she started mimicking theirs. He used to tell me, things were great until that summer, and I kept reminding him, "no they weren't. They were really bad in fact, and you just didn't know it." I was quite worried that when he started dating again they'd have a fight and he'd think it was the end of the world.

Hell you can grow to find them highly amusing. My gilrfreind always puts the bowls on the wrong side of the cupboard, I move them back every time I notice because they have a spot and she keeps moving them, but I find it funny everytime. I'm sure in part because it makes me kinda giddy as it reminds me that we're sharing stuff in an almost "what's mine is yours" kinda way.

Still I'm sure for another guy that would be really annoying, it's technically a flaw. Hell I spend a lot of time online (either on forums or watching streams on Twitch), that could be really annoying for a particular kind of person, but my gilrfreind enjoys it and will occasionally tell me to say hi to people I'm chatting with.

Then there's finding joint flaws that you can kidna revel in, my gilrfreind and I are both messy, we both snack a lot (me less since my snack draw became her clothes draw) and we're both pretty bad at doing the washing up, however as those are things we both do it's fine, I'm sure if either of us was in a relationship with someone who found those things annoying it would be madness.

You can even find flaws you work on together, my girlfriend and I tend to just eat snacks and microwave meals, but since we've gotten together we've been trying to cook something at least once a week. My last gilrfreind cooked plenty and I'm pretty sure she found it annoying that I couldn't cook for her when she would come to mine.

That's a great big mix of traits right there, you shouldn't be looking for someone who has some list of 'perfect' traits that have been drilled into your brain, look for someone whose traits work with yours.

Yes this on so many levels. I have issues with fear of accidentally pressuring people into doing stuff they don't want to (not helped by my previous girlfriend revealing when we broke up that she'd been saying she enjoyed doing a minor thing one way just to make me happy, when she in fact did not). I like that I disagree with my girlfriend on thing, the fact that every so often I'll say "should we do this" and she'll go "no I don't feel like it" means that when I suggest something and she says yes I know that she's saying yes because she wants to do what I'm suggesting.

edited 11th Mar '15 7:38:48 PM by Silasw

Yeppers! You don't have to fight. But disagreeing is normal and should be encouraged.

And to pull closer to topic, when you're dealing with a disorder that can impair communication abilities, it is important to allow yourself to disagree with each other safely. That helps keep communication secure while also allowing the room for clarification.

Aprilla can disagree with me and tell me flatly, and it helps me realize what was in my head isn't what just fell out of my mouth and we can start over. I don't take it personal, I just know I need to reboot.

Yeesh, this is only making me remember how great I had it with MB. Yeah we're still friends and we hang out and talk all the time and I know how to move on but dammit, neither of us were perfect but we worked well with each other. We're straightforward and honest with one another and even though we don't agree with everything we're still cool. Damn my acceptance of her free will to choose to explore the possibility she's aromantic. I should have tried harder to hold on.

I never look for perfection in anything but myself and only because I'm such a neurotic mess. I'm pretty much almost willing to accept humans being humans.... except in me. Yes, I know it's stupid that I hold myself to a ridiculous nonsense standard that collapses under any form of scrutiny, I'm working on it.

You are fine man. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Discussion on a movie about autism, and how accurate it is

It covers how portraying a wide variety of autistics is important, to emphasize how no two autistics are alike. The movie even features one autistic who tends to piss off all the others, which ends up hurting him:

There has been some talk of that in this thread, with one autistic claiming that he hates what his parents have called a "gift".

I think that takes balls. Audiences tend to want a likeable character, and autistics are often not "likeable" in the sense that society wants. I'm not just talking about the ones who creep people out simply be being "a little off", but ones who are like, say, Sonya Cross in The Bridge, who was called unlikeable by many people unfamiliar with autism.

Awesome. We need more of that.

I'm plenty familiar with autism and I still find Sonya distinctly unlikeable. Having a reason for being the way you are doesn't obligate people to like you, and "she's autistic" only goes so far as a defense. To pick a more extreme example, that guy I mentioned a ways back who I knew from university, was definitely autistic, but that didn't make him less of an MRA, misogynist stalker.

Yup. True. The only reason I bring it up is because people can mistaken autistic behavior for rudeness or be disturbed by something odd but harmless. Sometimes when people understand autism, they become more accepting of a person because they understand why they are the way they are. This is assuming the person isn't, say, intentionally rude or something like that.

edited 12th Mar '15 12:43:30 PM by BonsaiForest

I met with my counselor today and he had an insight into why it took so long for anyone to diagnose me. He said that it sounds like I have behavioral patterns that match ASD, but the way they're expressed is different from the "norm". Basically, I obsessively try to make friends, but stop when I have two or three good friends. I tend to be one the making plans, which really threw people off, but the plans are always the same (dinner and a movie). With rare exceptions. While I do have a focus on video games and anime and movies, I rarely can focus on a single thing for too long, but I do maintain a focus on a given medium instead of a specific product.

@Gab, Glad you have more faith in me than I do. Have I eve rmentioned that you are one of my favourite psoters? I don't know when yo uarrived but you have always made OTC a delight to read.

I'm sorry, are you me?

Jokes aside, if we have that much in common I can definitely see "Oh my, these people don't have ASD at all".

When I went to university I had to get rediagnosed. They said I had a "non-verbal learning disability" which seems to be shrink speak for "we know you're screwed up, but we're not sure with what." I asked the psychiatrist who reevaluated me, and she seemed thrown off by the fact that I had a sense of humour and understood sarcasm.

In other news, one of my friends is now going to be one of the rare autistics who get married. Her boyfriend proposed and she, of course, said yes. It'll be a funny marriage. He's short, quiet and deeply religious, and she is none of the above.

Is her boyfriend on the spectrum? If not, do you know how much he understands autism?

He's not on the spectrum, but he was very gunshy relationship wise after his previous (and only) girlfriend bailed on him. No idea what his understanding level is, but they've never had a serious problem that I'm aware of. Generally speaking she brings him out of his shell somewhat, and he grounds her.

edited 12th Mar '15 8:04:13 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

X5 A lot of that sounds like the bi-product of combine ASD and ADD to me. Do you also have something like ADD?

Congrats to your friend and her fiancée. I do suspect that the reason we think so many autistics aren't married is because the ones with the skills to get married are also the ones most likely to fly under the radar. That and diagnosis being such a recent thing a lot of already married ones will simply have been classified as weird and never formally diagnosed (like my dad who has been married twice).

An app is being made to review business based on autism-friendliness on how they treat kids (adults were not mentioned, as per the norm) with autism.

Admittedly, that's over half the article I copy/pasted, but it's hard to really simplify it and get the point across.

I would like to see more updated data on autistic adults and marriage. It's very possible that you're right, though I still expect the percentage to be low. One of the sources that cited the 1% statistic was the Simons Foundation Autism Research Institute (SFARI), and it was on an article about adults with "mild forms of autism" specifically.

Also regarding autism and marriage, one woman on the spectrum said that people who know her and her husband often joke that she's the "husband" and he's the "wife". From my experiences, there is more fluidity in gender roles among autistics. I imagine this may throw off non-autistics.

edited 13th Mar '15 1:41:31 PM by BonsaiForest

You might be interested in this book review of a kids' book written in 1990 that focuses on a kid with autism.

Even a 7-year-old thought this was messed up.

Dear Christ almighty, don't even get me started with Kristy and the Secret of Susan. The book has left a bad taste in my mouth for a few reasons:

1) The babysitters seem to always think they can solve the children's problems. While some of them are problems that need to be solved, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that autism can't be cured. Not to mention that so many problems are handled the wrong way. For example, they told an emotional eater to lose weight if he wants to stop being picked on.

2) Having another child isn't going to make the first one and her problems go away. When Susan comes home, say, for a holiday break or summer vacation, she'll have even more to deal with.

3) Why the hell is the mother entrusting a thirteen-year-old with an autistic child? A thirteen-year-old, no matter how much babysitting she's done, will not be able to make the right accommodations.

Sometimes I kind of hate having to deal with Asperger's. I flat out refused to go to a rock music festival (even with some artists I really like performing) because of my hearing sensitivity and dislike of touching. I swear it's going to ruin my life one day.

edited 15th Mar '15 5:44:02 PM by Explosivo25

Gotta say, I agree with all three of your points. It's not just the whole Improbable Age thing, as that's really just meant to get kids to cheer for characters they can vaguely sort-of relate to. But also all the bad morals in the story. Also, I have also had problems with my autism causing me to be overwhelmed in certain kinds of situations. It's not enough to make me totally hate it in itself, but obviously it's not a good aspect of it.

I was talking with my female Aspie friend again, and we had a chat that turned, multiple times, to societal rules that we disagree with. What's interesting is that she doesn't think her autism/Aspergers affects her too much. She's confident about her ability to find a job and isn't afraid that she'll be backstabbed or kicked out of the one she's applying for in the summer (she was able to reach the employer directly, and he knows of her condition and is drawn to her personality). That, of course, is rare for people on the autism spectrum, but it's what happened in her case.

Still, that doesn't mean we don't both agree that many of society's rules are just plain stupid.

For example, one thing she feels strongly about is society's view on age differences and age roles. She doesn't think that because someone is, say, a teenager, that they shouldn't be allowed to have conversations with adults. Or vice versa. That people of all ages can have intelligent things to contribute. I personally, am a big believer that anything a person's maturity level can handle, they should be taught, even if their physical age is younger than when one might normally learn it.

I said that we autistics tend to be wired to see people as mostly social equals. Someone doesn't command respect from us because they have a position of power, but rather, because they've earned that respect from us. She agreed, saying that when she was little, she wondered what was so great about royalty. I remarked that non-autistics seem to based prestige simply on what other people say - if this person is popular, then they probably deserve it, so therefore I suddenly think they're cool too. I commented that humans are herd animals, and autistics tend to be less influenced by that, "for better and worse".

Which led me to another topic. How people who brag about being rich, having lots of sex partners, being tough, etc., are putting on a show to compensate for whatever's missing in their life. For example, someone who brags about having lots of sex partners likely desires a meaningful relationship with a single individual, and they can't get it. We talked about how a lot of NT society is putting on airs and not people admitting to what they really want.

She remarked that society teaches us "be yourself", but then proceeds to undermine that very message with how much it seems to hate genuine individuality. (I picked up on that as early as elementary school!) That the saying "don't judge a book by its cover" is ignored, as people are constantly putting on a show of being something they're not for the sake of social prestige. If we took that saying about books and covers seriously, the social prestige game would fall apart because we'd all see through it.

She asked if I think that society judges autistics as being unintelligent because of things like the sound of our voice, and our mannerisms. I agreed, and said it was an example of how people are "programmed" to judge people instantly by their cover. She said she wasn't so sure that people were naturally "programmed" to be that way, but that society teaches them to be that way, and that life experiences can undo that teaching.

We later went on to talk about our views on gender roles (we both dislike the gender role of our own sex; I'm not into "macho" stuff and she's not into super-"feminine" stuff, both of us are fine with very mildly "masculine"/"feminine" stuff, but not the extreme end at all).

Anyway, what do you think of these thoughts?

I'd say that while I agree that people who are mature enough should taught things that meant for older people, it should not be done to the point of depriving one's other needs, especially physical and social needs. All round development is important for anyone to grow well. Let's just say that I learned this the hard way.

The main reason why I do take authority seriously because they have earned it in some way or another, even if the way they get it could be on the err side. After all, just because you don't see what they did to earn respect from others doesn't mean that those things doesn't exist. However, I expect a leader to not simply command. A command only leader to me is all talk and do nothing, aka big ego.

While I agree that bragging is a way of compensating for something, I've seen exceptions to this rule. Being proud of what one really has isn't a bad thing when it does not go overboard. Just because that I am proud that I am single doesn't mean that I am lamenting that I could not get into relationships. I have decided that solitary life is best suited for me, that's it.

I somewhat agree with the idea of don't judge a book by its cover, but unless you do not believe in first impressions I consider the idea somewhat hypocritical. I always believe that first impressions are lies to trap people. Also, in situations involving safety, irrational paranoia can be justified.

In a sense, autistics are unintelligent, but only socially, that is. The problem is people like to link social intelligence with other forms of intelligence and the other way around. I'd say that intelligences are independent of each other in the sense that it is possible for someone who is intelligent in only one area of life.

As a bonus, I frequently feel that "if this is what being a human means, I'd rather be a robot". There are too many societal concepts that I never understand or worse, found it abusive.

edited 16th Mar '15 5:32:00 AM by murazrai

What do you mean about having learned the hard way about learning things meant for older people? I don't think either of us had depriving people of their physical and social needs in mind.

I agree. Intelligence is many things, and I wish people would realize that. Heck, I have a cousin who's the smartest dumbass you'd ever meet. I don't even want to elaborate, but I'm not the only one in my family who thinks this.

Sadly, way too many people look at one aspect of a person and assume too much about the person as a whole. This sort of thing causes all sorts of problems; bigger ones for autistics, but problems for lots of people.

Well, what I have said is hyperbole, but I was prevented from having much social and physical involvement in my life by my parents (during my late teens, I become a shut-in and my parent did not bother to do so anymore) up until I was sent for pre-university studies (matriculation, to be exact, but it is kind of hard to explain). As a result, I have low stamina and could neither able nor feel like making (but not necessarily having) friends, which further exacerbated by having interests and beliefs that can only be called a kitchen sink .

edited 17th Mar '15 5:04:35 AM by murazrai

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how that relates to having a kid or teenager be treated like they're too mature, or something like what I was talking about before. I'm lost.

Correct me if I am wrong, I just want to make sure I am on the same page as you:

Either your parents wouldn't let you go out and do things so you were a forced shut in,

or

You didn't go out and do things and your parents allowed it or didn't make you go out and be sociable?

Am I on the right track or totally off in left field? I could be.

I think this went straight to miscommunication territory already and I'm shooting myself in my foot....

Well, I was considered a gifted child when I was still a kid. At that point I simply follow PE class, something that my parents were fine with. Then, when I was in early teenagehood, I get bullied frequently and tend to get injuries while participating in sports (at one point, it was even a head surgery, but that was a misunderstanding as I ended up running away from the supposed bullies while they were actually trying to pick up their bag which I was supposed to be picking earlier).

So, my parents told me to stay away from them and focus on my own intellectual interests instead, which is reading textbooks meant for my elder siblings. As a result, I eventually withdrawn myself from physical and social activities, leading to what I said earlier. This also resulted in me refusing to work during school holidays, only to go into real jobs unprepared. Had my parents suggesting alternative ways to protect myself, I think I will be more active and sociable than I am now.

In a sense, if a parent gets too protective and only allows their children to learn intellectual things that they are interested in regardless of whether it is a reaction over the problems when their children doing physical and social activities or not, their development would be slanted and will adversely affect them when they become adults.

Sorry for not making myself clearer.

edited 17th Mar '15 7:56:40 AM by murazrai

Seems like the scummy bullies should have been punished. It's so sickening that the victim has to drop out of school or transfer or whatever, and the bully, the one who's actually causing the damn problems, gets to stay.