Really a Useful Note: Adolf Hitler

There are two main things wrong with this.

1. It should be in the Useful Notes namespace. Currently the correctly namespaced page is being used as a redirect.
2. It has a ton of tropes describing Hitler as if he were a fictional character, including many that are No Real Life Examples, Please! tropes, such as various villain tropes.

I think that all the "Adolf Hitler also provides examples of the following" tropes should be cut as being in poor taste, off mission, and being against a growing consensus that we should not treat Useful Notes about Real Life stuff and people as works of fiction.

What should be kept are the "Trope Namer for" and "Other tropes involving Hitler in some way" lists.

"The more interesting works of fiction involving Hitler" should be changed to "Works of fiction featuring Hitler as a Historical Domain Character", because the idea of "The More interesting" violates the spirit of There Is No Such Thing as Notability.

edited 11th Apr '14 12:24:05 PM by Catbert

This is pretty much par for the course for articles about real people. No objections, do it.

I would also consider to put an "admin keep" note on the image caption, since it's the thing that caused the page lock.

Just noticed that Trivia.Adolf Hitler pretty much duplicates what is on the main page. Is there a reason to have it or should it be cut and locked?

And what is up with Tropers.Adolf Hitler? Poor taste if you ask me.

Did you read the spoilered-out last line? "This is a joke page created for the sockpuppet theater thread, the real page about Hitler is here"

If the Trivia page duplicates the main one, then there is no reason to keep it.

"being against a growing consensus that we should not treat Useful Notes about Real Life stuff and people as works of fiction."

Does such a consensus exist? Because there are loads and loads of trope pages having to do with real people and Real Life events that have trope lists. Loads.

Including Real Life itself. (That's probably joke similar to how people put spoiler tags on examples from The Bible. Heck, it's in the Just for Fun namespace.)

edited 12th Apr '14 4:15:40 AM by KarjamP

I support turning this into a Useful Note. Having tropes on a page like this is in pretty bad taste, IMO.

edited 12th Apr '14 4:37:38 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

Useful Note. No tropes.

Moving it to Useful Notes works for me.

I would support that, and in addition what I proposed in @3 if people are interested.

So do we have a consensus? If so, I can implement today.

A consensus as regards to what? Moving it to Useful Notes? Sure.

Something I didn't think about: We need to have a moderator implement this because Adolf Hitler is locked and therefore can not turned into a redirect to the moved article by your average troper.

edited 15th Apr '14 11:32:12 AM by Catbert

I did the first part of the move: Adolf Hitler.

A question though: Should we either relock the page after the move or leave it open with a note to leave the caption alone? (The page lock happened after Eddie took an overly caption out; it wasn't precipitated by any kind of vandalism).

I'd be fine with just an admin note as long as we also have several people agreeing to put the page on their watchlist to keep an eye out for vandalism or other edits that could be a problem.

Added

(edit) um, there are some things we may want to discuss about Jewish heritage before we close this thread, though. Mainly the point that we don't have respectable geneologists who are making the claim that Adolf was Jewish, only lay people who appreciate the irony of a self-hating Jew trying to exterminate all Jews.

edited 15th Apr '14 12:46:51 PM by crazysamaritan

I question the utility of this or any other Useful Note article if we are going to excise the trope lists, as was done with this article. TV Tropes is not The Other Wiki and should not aspire to be.

There is still a connection to tropes. We are listing tropes that are named for him or something he did, or that are otherwise specifically related to him.

We are using listing examples of him being used as a Historical Domain Character, which is a trope.

What we aren't doing is using tropes to describe his life as if he were some sort of character in a story. Especially since most of the tropes listed were villain tropes that are already No Real Life Examples Please tropes.

edited 15th Apr '14 4:05:19 PM by Catbert

I did flip the redirects around as well as adding a note to Wick Namespace Migration.

Now, only the question of a note regarding the caption remains - I do already have the new page on my watchlist.

"What we aren't doing is using tropes to describe his life as if he were some sort of character in a story."

Why not?

Real Life is not proven to be a story, despite some religions.

Septimus Heap, I'm fine with a note saying to not make any picture and caption changes without an Image Picking thread.

Edit PS

I added the following note to the page. Is this okay?

—-

This is an Admin note. Do not change or delete it.

Do NOT change the page image or add an image caption to this page without making a new Image Picking thread to get approval first.

This is an Admin note. Do not change or delete it.

edited 16th Apr '14 4:46:29 PM by Catbert

That looks good. I've redirected the Main page to the UN page and moved the discussion page.

edited 17th Apr '14 4:01:09 AM by Willbyr