CW's Flash

The Arrow is dead Season 4 Ollie will become the Green Arrow.

Stephen Amell said that he will no longer wear the Arrow costume.

Stephen Amell is a glorious troll. Take anything he says with a grain of salt.

I fail to see how what happen makes him unsympathetic. Barry was conflicted in making trip in the first place, they had little reason to doubt Eobard other than "He's evil!", and in the end he took the third option to get closure. Most time travel stories I'm used to don't have the protagonist realize that til after they f'd up.

guess now's as good a time as any to watch arrow.

Had little reason to...

As somebody who was "meh" about this series during its entire first season... "HE'S EVIL" should be damn well enough not to trust him!

This is a guy who admitted he killed Barry's mom just... because! Just because he hates him! He even says what started it doesn't matter! This is a man who apparently thrives on ruining people for petty reasons!

This is a guy who has lied and deceived Barry and company the entire time they've known him! And they're supposed to believe, not only that he's telling the truth about Barry being able to save his mom, not only that he'll hold up his end of the bargain and not kill Barry when they let him out, but that even if he goes back to his time as he says, he'll just leave them alone after that?

NO.

You cannot expect me to side with the heroes for being dumb enough to listen to that! You know why Barry is unsympathetic after that? Because whether it was him time-traveling or Eddie killing himself that caused the singularity, it could have been easily avoided had Barry not let him out of the freaking cell! And whether the casualty count ends up being the entire population of the city or just Eddie, it's still on Team Flash.

edited 25th May '15 7:00:52 PM by Khfan429

Lets keep Eobard in the cell doesn't sound like a good idea either if use that logic, because when he gets out he would stop at nothing to get his way. At least they did it on their terms.

How is he going to get out without the Speed Force or a means of charging himself?

And oh, on their terms? You mean Eddie killing himself because Barry wasn't even smart enough to have the Arrow and Firestorm (AKA the only reasons he beat RF the last time) around before trying this stupid stunt, just on the off-chance that the liar/deceiver was lying and deceiving? Even though there was no apparent time limit and he could have waited until it was convenient to have them both there?

edited 25th May '15 7:03:14 PM by Khfan429

I thought if Eobard wanted out he could just phase through the wall. I think he was only in the prison just because he knew he was going to get what he wanted his chance to go home.

Eobard helped design the very prison he was held in. That might be cause for concern.

Grodd, emotional manipulation, psychological manipulation, or any design flaw the cells might have since he helped with them. And considering Eobard has shown his ability to plan ahead he might had something up his sleeve had they outright refused.

Barry destroying the time machine was unforeseen by almost everyone, so up til that point Eobard had no reason to at against "them".

edited 25th May '15 7:08:15 PM by Cross

Well, we'll never know now, will we? Because instead of going that way and making the heroes not a bunch of morons, the writers decided to go the path of them trusting someone they have no reason to trust, only to have it blow up in their face. It just so happens (which is just as much poor writing as anything else) that what screwed them over was that for once (again, something they had no reason to believe) he was apparently not lying this time, and they screwed it up. Surprise surprise.

They could have ended up at the exact same result had they not trusted Thawne. The only difference? They'd look less staggeringly incompetent.

edited 25th May '15 7:09:23 PM by Khfan429

Yeah the heroes are dumb.

That being said, what Eobard was offering was technically much bigger than Barry.

If he never kills Barry's mom, then he never gets trapped in the past, never kills the real Wells and his wife, never causes the Particle Accelerator explosion, and while Barry still becomes the Flash anyway, we can assume (though there is no evidence of this) that this never results in all the meta-humans running about.

He was offering much more than just saving Barry's mom. He was offering the chance to undo every death he caused, and fix every life he ruined.....

Up until he decided to do it all again and fuck up the timeline in another way, because you can't trust the fucker.

So yeah, dumb heroes.

From the sound of it, all Eobard did was move up the date of the explosion. In which case, if it still happens, I don't see where it wouldn't have still created a bunch of metahumans.

The Flash team does not know that.

The Flash teams does know that the Flash still exists in the pre-Eobard timeline because of the 2024 newspaper.

Well, with about ten more years of research, it's entirely possible that the accident wasn't quite as bad.

Remember, Eobard rigged his accelerator to fail. Wells might have listened to Hartley (provided he was even there in the original timeline) and held it off.

Even if it still went sour, it might not be half as bad.

They don't know how many metahumans the particle accelerator created; in fact, given that Eobard doesn't recognize Blackout, there's reason to believe that it would not have created so many.

They know the Flash exists, but don't know how. Or might not even know if it's the newspaper from the original timeline, or if the paper changed as the future did.

That's another good point. They have no reason not to believe the newspaper is from their future not an alternate timeline. And it should be, given what happened when Blackout stopped Barry's powers, which is something I'd forgotten about.

Or at least, it's from their future as it would have progressed at the time they last saw it. Something tells me the events of the finale have changed things somewhat.

edited 26th May '15 11:36:55 AM by KnownUnknown

Deathbolt wasn't even in Central City when the particle accelerator exploded he was in Opal City but he still became a metahuman.

edited 26th May '15 11:50:04 AM by Halberdier17

Wait, what's this about Wells lying? Specific to the "Barry can go back in time and save his mom" plan, I don't remember anything deceptive. It wasn't until Barry decided not to save her and broke his time machine instead that he decided to just kill crap out of everyone.

The thing about lying is, the more you do it, the longer you've done it, and the bigger the lie is, the more likely people are to assume you are always lying.

Even telling the truth is seen as part of a deception.

So it's only natural they'd be distrustful of Wells even if he was being completely honest, cause the only one who knows that is him.

Even when he's not lying, he's manipulating the truth. Barry /could/ go back and save his mum. It would have had messy results, but.....

What I especially liked is that I basically did the whole "the size of the headache from causing a paradox is directly proportional to the size of the hole ripped in the space-time continuum."

I used it to explain why a Physical God couldn't just make whatever changes they wanted in the world.

Time travel and paradoxes make my brain hurt. changing history—-you change one thing and it changes so much more, like pulling a thread out of a tapestry—maybe not everything changes, but it alters the pattern, some, in big ways and in little ways.

what's the line, "it is a delicate thing, saving someone's life. That's why, when she tries to re-write history, she gets so paralyzed." ?

also, my friends were so ticked at me for my Eddie thing, Wild Card that they insisted I write something happy, giving me the prompt "suddenly, kittens." may I present, the crackiest thing I've ever written.

"suddenly, kittens."

Ha! I don't suppose you read Lumberjanes, do you? At one point, a character gets Godlike powers and uses it to wishes for kittens! Kittens for everyone!