Misused (titles crowner 9/24/14): Asshole Victim

Death is not a requirement.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I was about to remove some of those when they were added... The punks from T1 are clear/valid examples, they are vandals who antagonize Arnold for no reason and get their due, but Sarah's roomate and boyfriend don't do anything really nasty trope-wise and the bikers from T2 are rough but they don't initiate the conflict, borderline example at best.

PS As it stands now, the trope has death as a requirement all over the description: "Corpse, murder, kill, homicide, dead..."

edited 24th Feb '15 1:10:44 AM by TrollBrutal

Point, though to some degree that's still left over from Who Murdered the Asshole.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Well, the description needs a rewrite. Here's a draft:

edited 25th Feb '15 3:14:03 AM by MyTimingIsOff

That looks great. Does Mugging the Monster need to be fit in there?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I don't think Mugging the Monster is needed. Let's just swap the new description in and finish this up.

Added the new description. Are we done here?

Still 3684 wicks that need to be checked.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Doesn't look like we have any takers. Why do the wicks need to be checked anyway? The definition change was an expansion. All examples of the old definition still fit. Am I missing something?

Because the old definition was moved off to another name.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Most of the old examples are going to be examples of the new trope Asshole Victim, but some are going to be Who Murdered the Asshole.

I've taken a cursory look, though, and most are either obviously Asshole Victim, or not enough context to see if they're something else.

Maybe I'm just pointing out the obvious, but we might have to change the "Playing With", "Laconic", and "Quotes" pages for Asshole Victim since they seem to reflect the old usages. For the quotes I'm thinking some of them should be transferred to Who Murdered the Asshole.

Isn't Asshole Victim in its current form an audience reaction trope and hence YMMV material?

E.g., I don't feel comfortable when writing a line like "Nobody can feel much sympathy for Nathan when he gets killed, considering his manipulative and abusive behavior blabla ...." and place it as objective fact on a work page.

edited 5th Sep '15 3:41:40 AM by eroock

Edit — I did not remember "the audience" being part of the definition, but it is, so this definitely belongs in Audience Reaction.

edited 5th Sep '15 5:14:12 AM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Alternatively, it could be made In Universe Examples Only with characters commenting that a bad character got what they deserved, not for every occasion the audience feels like gravedancing.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"

^ That call is coming way too late, considering that the majority of all cross-links (1,800) are of the audience reaction kind. A migration to YMMV will take just as much effort, but it will be a shared one.

"Audience" has always been part of the trope, but then again using that word does not make something YMMV.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

^ In what situation would you consider an audience reaction not YMMV?

From second last paragraph on Audience Reaction: If an audience reaction occurs or is discussed in-universe, it's acceptable to list the reaction in question on a work's main trope page. Otherwise, please place it on the YMMV subpage.

edited 6th Sep '15 3:43:10 AM by eroock

Huh? Using the word "audience" in the definition does not make something and Audience Reaction. Here, it indicates an intended reaction to a character's death.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I cannot see why this is not Audience Reaction. Would you say Asshole Victim is not YMMV? Please explain.

Yes, I stated my reason above. The scope of this storytelling device is to create a character which is not sympathetic when they fall victim to a crime.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Its very much not YMMV, works make it clear that someone is an asshole or not then they are victimized.

The moral dilemma around it is after whatever happened, do you feel sorry for them or think its just deserts. That is the key to the trope, if the 'assholeness' is ambiguous and that moral dilemma does not come up in story then it is just not the trope.

I would argue though is this can be applied to something that is not a murder though.

edited 6th Sep '15 4:03:55 PM by Memers

The original trope has already been transplanted. The original trope was clearly In-Universe because it was defined by characters having motive to kill the victim.

It was misused for the audience believing that the victim deserved any crime. Sounds like a clear-cut case for Audience Reaction to me. Not everyone agrees when a victim "deserves it".

edited 6th Sep '15 7:47:47 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Locking as part of New Years Purge.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick