Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe, maybe not. I hope Kyiv extracts a lesson from all this.
That, too. Also, I don't think the local population will want another devastating conflict like this. Although they'll still be left with a sense of injustice from Kyiv.
Also, for some time now, Strelok has been very vocally complaining about the lack of local support.
edited 29th Jul '14 11:30:09 PM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
HGW XX/7
All over by Christmas? 
We've heard that before.
True.
The recent resignation does not give me hope.
Oh hope springs eternal with these sort of things. And in anycase the circumstances can become such that the east (which is more than just Donbass) as a whole would reject Kiev, if Kiev never learns.
The Rada elections will be crucial. Ukraine needs a functional parliament, not the mess that exists now.
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
HGW XX/7
They just set the mortar up in the middle of a running track? No cover or nothing? Seems a bit...silly.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
A bit... exposed may rather be the proper word. A mortar placement should ideally not be blindingly obvious, to my knowledge.
When in deadly danger, When beset by doubt, Run in little circles, Wave your arms and shout.
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Nah, see they're going to be looking for concealed mortars. They'd never find one out in the open.
Oh really when?
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
They could always simply relocate the mortars immediately after letting loose with several barrages, if not by vehicle, then by foot or bicycle. Both the Chinese and the Vietnamese used this particular tactic to decent success in their respective wars. The South African military practically enforces this as a doctrine in its artillery arms, as such methods played good roles in the country's many counter-insurgency campaigns.
Sounds Crazy Enough to Work to me!
Apparently RT is claiming that the only reason the government forces are so desperate to get into the east right now is so they can destroy the evidence proving that they brought down MH17.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Russia Today: Making Fox News look good since 2005.
Russia is now openly doing Ukraine-flavored racist anti-Obama propaganda.
Translations: the one on the left says "keep your hoofs out of Ukraine, we don't abandon our own", while the one on the right says "don't suffocate from this", with the banana captioned "Ukraine".
edited 1st Aug '14 6:43:25 AM by amitakartok
And Ukraine bans films that show Russia in a good light. So? It's a propaganda war. We get it.
If this thread is gonna just devolve into "dur look how evil Russia is", then perhaps it should be closed. Let's discuss actual news (and I mean information about the actual goings on, not the idiotic stories about portrayal and PR and whatnot).
Wandering Jew
Meh. They're gonna rot in the Russian third Division, anyway.
Except that the propaganda in question isn't aimed at Ukraine and they're doing it in a way that got old decades ago. It's like Russia is actively trying to provoke someone into declaring war so that they can pose as victims of external aggression. Nobody is fooled so why the hell are they even trying?
Does FIFA have the authority to revoke a country's hosting rights for a World Cup? If so, it would be quite a blow for the Russian economy (and I heard some members were already considering it weeks ago).
edited 1st Aug '14 6:56:14 PM by amitakartok
The US is picking a propaganda war with Russia as well, not just Ukraine. Therefore, they too are legitimate targets in a propaganda response. It's that simple.
Again, we get that a propaganda war is happening. Stick to actual news.
わからない
Yeah, it's quite interesting that the US is picking a propaganda war with Russia while having its president under propaganda attacks of being too weak when it comes to Russia (they're actually calling it as "Putin has Obama by the balls").
I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.
The fact that both Russia and the US are engaging in this kind of propaganda confirms the old Not So Different status they used to have (and which is returning).
Republicans in the US say that. No body else. But then the Republicans in the US think Putin is way cool, so I think thats more of the opposition being contrarian on principle than it being proof that this somehow isn't a propaganda war.
Because that can't possibly be true, especially with regards to Moscow or Beijing.
In all seriousness though, the US has a tendency to fallback to Cold War tropes and rhetoric with regards to Russia. Several tropers have that same tendency. All I'm doing is trying to keep the debate fair, despite the truth always being the first casualty of war.
So stop with your tone.
edited 1st Aug '14 7:32:27 PM by FFShinra
Out of curiosity - how US officials can engage in a propaganda war? Putin has some state-owned media outlets, for example, the infamous Russia Today, which happily engage in propaganda mongering for him. But, as far as I know, in US practically all the media is private-owned, so Obama or whoever cannot directly control it. Right? Or am I missing something obvious?
And, BTW, to be fair. The racist banana placard, in all probability, is a private thing: not erected by a state, just some random schmuck paying for it and putting it on. Would be funny if it turns out to be against Russia "extremism" laws :)
I don't think this is likely. Kiev screwing up is very likely, of course - and I suspect that after all the bad blood between Ukraine proper and rebel regions they might not even want to treat them nicely, understandably so. However, Russia has made it rather clear that those of Donbass are on their own. They started it in the first place hoping for backing from Russia, and they won't rely on Russia again. So they would be disgruntled and would cause a lot of social problems, but probably won't attempt armed insurrection.
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common