Misused: Added Alliterative Appeal

I once tried to folderize the page, but I questioned whether a page would even be useful if it is this big.

Also, the standard for alliteration is loosely defined. Some are based on letters while others are on sounds, and English being what it is, sounds have more than one letter associated with them.

There really isn't a fitting trope that can be represented with a name as broad as Added Alliterative Appeal; it's come up before (including this thread) that, for a trope, the title Added Alliterative Appeal just boils down to general "Alliteration", which would be as broad and unworthy of needing a trope page as equally broad subjects, such as "Rhymes", "Slang", and "Figures of Speech".

If anyone wants to make a trope about more specific usage of alliteration (i.e., a character who constantly spouts alliterative sentences/phrases as a quirk or gimmick) should just have a title that is equally distinct and specific to the troped occurrence.

I have NEVER seen a definition of alliteration that is solely "based on letters". Alliteration has always defined repetition of particular sounds on stressed syllables at the beginning of words, even if they're not the same letter (Crisis in Kenya, Fun with Photoshop, Cyan Sequins, Joking Genius, Judge Dredd, etc. are all acceptable examples of alliteration)—nothing else. The index already outlines this exact guideline, and it has been enforced by myself and others who curate the page.

The only problems I'm seeing are the wicks which pothole an index in place of a non-existent trope for a topic that is far too broad for one, and many of which have already been shown here to not be alliterative, anyway.

edited 4th Oct '13 10:33:46 PM by SeanMurrayI

Again, I have actually went through a small portion of alliteration and I have found plenty of instances of spelling alliteration, especially for the vowels.

There's also the issue of dialect if we're sticking to pronunciation.

Again, there's no such thing as "spelling alliteration"; it's just "alliteration", which is phonetic. In all likelihood, what you are describing are wicks which should be be noted with our current collection of incorrectly applied potholes.

Regional dialect is occasionally something to consider, but it's minor and typically limited to certain vowel sounds, which makes these sorts of conflicts uncommon and manageable and easy to resolve/clarify when they do occur.

edited 4th Oct '13 10:27:22 PM by SeanMurrayI

Then would the difference in vowel sounds, with or without dialect differences, make something alliteration or no?

that is far too broad for one

Going to need explanation on that - on the face, it looks like it plainly violates No Trope Is Too Common.

"No", because that's not what alliteration is. If a non-alliterative dialect merely exists in a minority, though, we're only talking about something that could do with with the "note" markup to acknowledge the rare exception to the rule.

Like I said already, we wouldn't start up pages as broad as "Words that Rhyme", "Slang", and "Figures of Speech". Note that plenty of tropes exist that detail various forms of rhyming and slang and anything else that occurs with specific usage and purpose (Rhymes on a Dime, Prophecies Rhyme All the Time, Future Slang, etc.), but we will NEVER have pages cataloging such conventions without meaningful context or reason within works.

Honestly, regarding any sort of language convention, would it be more acceptable and useful to start a page compiling English Words Containing the Letter 'S' or Examples of the Letter 'S' Being Used for a More Specific and Meaningful Purpose?

edited 5th Oct '13 8:15:55 AM by SeanMurrayI

Hmmm ... we do have pages on broad concepts like Pun (Which has also a lot of subtropes).

Also, I don't agree with the "S" analogy. Seems much more chairsy and meaningless than anything under discussion here.

But Pun is just an index page, outlining the definition of pun before listing all subtropes dedicated to more specific and meaningful usage (In fact, its redirect, Punny Index, would make this page's obvious purpose more clear).

The Pun page isn't cataloging examples of puns in general; it has no examples. If this page should be analogous to this topic at hand, a comparable Alliteration page would only serve as an index that lists the tropes focusing on more specific forms of alliteration (Alliterative Name, Alliterative Title, Alliterative List, etc.) and we still wouldn't create a catalog for just any old bit of alliteration.

edited 5th Oct '13 8:33:58 AM by SeanMurrayI

The Pun page serves as a supertrope. That's why it's there and not under Punny Index. As for this one, whille I do not want a list of any alliteration at all, the fundamental question is whether Added Alliterative Appeal is supertrope-worthy.

edited 5th Oct '13 8:40:54 AM by SeptimusHeap

The Pun page's only purpose is to define what a pun is and allow for potholing (again, pothole; it's not supposed to appear on work pages anywhere as a full-fledged a trope) wherever it may be relevant when there doesn't seem to be a more applicable subtrope to link instead, much like the page for Plot. The only difference between Pun and Plot pages is that Pun also indexes specific tropes about puns, whereas the index for tropes specifically concerning plot are found on a different page.

Again, this is a discussion about how we properly view language devices. Be they puns, similes, gerunds, onomatopoeia, or alliteration, these devices themselves are too general and non-specific to allow examples on pages defining those terms because they are very common things found in language. I don't see anything wrong with a page describing alliteration in general, but if it's just intended to outline the general definition of alliteration then it would be best for such a page to only give that definition and allow for potholing like Plot where appropriate without cataloging examples.

If anyone's looking for a trope about alliteration with examples, it should be about alliteration being used in a specific way or for a specific purpose.

edited 5th Oct '13 10:59:03 AM by SeanMurrayI

Pun is too common for examples, but it is a trope.

Alliteration is too common for examples. It is a trope. It can have its own page.

There's Just For Pun.

So we have an index of pun-based trope titles. We should have an index of alliterative trope titles.

We have a supertrope about puns. We should have a supertrope for alliteration.

No page should be called "added alliterative appeal."

I am not convinced that Added Alliterative Appeal isn't a good name for the supertrope.

It is a case of alliteration by letter instead of sound. Just pointing it out.

That name works fine. And the pronunciation is the same anyway. It's the stress that's different.

edited 6th Oct '13 3:11:26 AM by AnotherDuck

I'm not convinced that it should even be called a supertrope, if the page's sole purpose would only amount to indexing the more specific alliteration tropes, which would be the only pages on alliteration actually treated as full-fledged tropes.

edited 6th Oct '13 8:12:09 AM by SeanMurrayI

Considering that the page history shows quite a bit of disagreement over what counts as alliteration (there was a Trope Talk topic on this, even), this page will definitively need a description of what alliteration is.

It already does. I think the problem is people don't read it, anyway. The most common misconception with incorrect inclusions to the index is already even addressed in bold print, and it hasn't curtailed the problem.

The wicks are no better, as I noticed already at a quick glance. Most wicks are either something that would be better utilized linking to a more applicable subtrope, needless Word Cruft from editors trying to write "clever" examples of other irrelevant tropes when they could just be more straightforward with what they're supposed to be describing, instead, and/or just plain incorrect, anyway.

edited 6th Oct '13 10:18:46 AM by SeanMurrayI

Again, even the title does not use phonetic alliteration.

• Added: æ
• Alliterative: ʌ
• Appeal: ʌ

At least, in the dialect I am familiar with.

What Mikuru Fan said.

How about Additional(ly) Alliterative Appeal?

How about just "Alliterative Appeal"? Or heck, just be as direct and straight-forward as every other page about alliteration that we got and just call it "Alliterative Trope Titles", "Alliteration Tropes", or "Alliteration Index" (depending on how we narrow the focus of the page or whether we even do that in the first place).

"Additional Alliterative Appeal" implies there was already alliteration present to begin with, before even more got compounded on top of it.

edited 8th Oct '13 12:06:57 PM by SeanMurrayI

Yes, just call it Alliterative Trope Titles, because this ISN'T about added alliterative appeal, it's an index of trope titles.

We can have a supertrope from alliteration, but it should be an index of alliteration tropes, not alliterative trope titles, and it should be called Alliteration.

If you really really want to keep the alliterative name for the index, something like Alliterative Appelation Archive might be better. Something that makes it clear it's an index.