I don't *get* the appeal of fantasy

• Personal Look at Roles of Officers: ...Hm, looking at my own plans, I don't know where I stand. My own books aren't much better about it than Joss' Initiative; the nonmagical police really don't get that shooting Lord Nihl is not going to work. However, past a certain point, they do get an upgrade. Though, muddying the waters somewhat is that the hero of my books is essentially a police officer of the magical side of things. However, he is never really shown receiving pay for his work directly. Dunno why not. So, yeah, I suppose I see where you guys are coming from that in works of fiction, that people who've devoted their lives to serving and protecting others are getting bum rap. I was just used to stories of the infamous side of the NYPD. My apologies.

• The weapons side of things: Referencing my own work, Matthew does carry a magical gun, he mostly fights using his sword...which can fire enormously destructive Sword Beams.
  • Realistic Sense: I can see where you guys are coming from on how, realistically, that guns are the superior weapon, and require less training, and even a spear is ultimately more useful. I just suppose I enjoy a bit of weapon equality, and equal shows of different things, instead of permutations of the same thing. I would guess that multiple types of guns would have a different style, but to my unenlightened eye, they all look like they just shoot the same, and get a One-Hit Kill most of the time.

• In Addition: I suppose the appeal of fantasy on a broader scale, to me, is to be able to create a new power structure. To see something independent of, or unrelated to, existing power structures, or even looking down over them. I like to read about a world order where the word of the day isn't "economy", or "work", or "negotiation". I like to see something different from the world I am used to in some ways, yet oddly similar in others.

edited 15th Oct '13 11:41:13 PM by NickTheSwing

The One-Hit Kill is, itself, kind of a dumbing down of firearm combat as well. I mean, sure, if you put a bullet between the eyes of an unarmored combatant, yeah, he's down. But there are actually a surprising number of ways to survive a gunshot wound, not least of which is body armor. Instant Death Bullet is a very inaccurate trope, as one bullet does not guarantee death, and even when it does, it's usually prolonged. This is, itself, a symptom of a greater issue - writers think we're much more fragile than we actually are. You'd be surprised what you can live through.

Guns aren't the only place this comes out. Instant Death is applied pretty haphazardly in storytelling. Whether it's a bullet to the chest or a blade across any part of your body, unless you're an indestructible Named Character, you drop instantly. Whereas about the only thing fiction tells us isn't instantly lethal - blunt force trauma - is actually incredibly deadly. In fiction, you can't kill people with bludgeoning weapons; they're used for nonlethal K Os, while guns and swords are instant death.

Since I'm on this topic, I want to note that headshots also aren't nearly as common in reality as they are in fiction. Soldiers are trained to shoot at center mass, and they do that for a reason: have you ever tried to hit someone's head while they're in motion? It's hard. Really hard. The head moves around a lot when a person is moving. The torso is actually the most static part of your body when you're in motion; it's an easy target. Shooting for the head means wasting a lot of bullets, when a few solid rounds to the chest will put your ass on the ground, even if it doesn't pierce your flak jacket.

End result is, killing people is hard. Really, really hard. But at the same time, it's still a very possible consequence of applying violence to a problem, no matter how you slice it. Tranquilizers can be lethal. Knockout tactics like choking someone out or slamming an object over the back of someone's head can be lethal. Just plain hitting someone in a fistfight until they stop getting back up can be lethal. On the flipside of that coin, shooting, stabbing, even things we think of as Guaranteed Murder Methods like slitting someone's throat or shooting them in the head, can be survived. Violence is a crapshoot. Easy, reliable nonlethal violence is about as much a myth as easy, reliable guaranteed killing methods.

edited 15th Oct '13 11:59:35 PM by TobiasDrake

Nick, Tobias: maybe you want to carry on here before mods start giving warnings for derailing.

I don't think it's too difficult to have a discussion per se, just trickier due to the points you identified. Of course, that then brings up the issue of how to have a meaningful discussion - perhaps find a definition that the vast majority can agree upon and use that for the purposes of discussion?

This thread is very insightful but going back on topic, the main of appeal fantasy is the escapism where even the sword fights are unrealistic.

On the subject of escapism, one thing that attracts people to fantasy is the black and white nature of it. Fantasy allows us to experience a world where Evil is a physical, external thing. The Forces of Good, championing the rights of freedom and holiness and whatever else the reader considers valuable, rally against the Forces of Evil, who seek to kill everyone and conquer the world for lulz. In fantasy, evil isn't a part of us; it's a separate thing with its own sapient mind that lurks and tries to corrupt and twist and manipulate everyone into succumbing. This is why Always Chaotic Evil races like orcs, vampires, and zombies are so popular; they're one-dimensional Forces of Evil that our heroes can slaughter en masse to allow Good to triumph over Evil.

Even an internalized battle of Good and Evil is generally between those concepts specifically, with all emotions separated into categories; love is Good, anger is Evil, compassion is Good, cruelty is Evil, etc. and once Evil has its claws in you, you fall completely into its sway and only great effort on the part of those who still feel Good emotions can save you. Anakin Skywalker jumps immediately from betraying his order in order to save his family to, "Yes, master, I will murder children for you. Praise Satan." And then he is redeemed by doing literally the exact same thing that caused him to fall in the first place - betraying his order to save his family. But in the first case, it was an Evil action, because he betrayed the Forces of Good, and in the second case it was a Good action, because he betrayed the Forces of Evil. His alignment shifts completely with each; his first Betrayal making him 100% Pure Evil, and his second completely redeeming him and absolving him of all crimes he committed.

The simplicity of Fantasy is what makes it so escapist. This is also why people complain frequently when a Fantasy work will delve into more morally grey territory. A common complaint is some flavor of, "If I wanted things to be morally complicated, I'd stay in reality." People run to fiction to get away from the complexities of the real world, and settle into a place where Evil is something you can just punch until it dies.

Not all fantasy is black and white like that. Game of Thrones, for example.

Yeah, that's just High Fantasy. While that is how fantasy started (and a good-sized part of it today), that's far from the only type of fantasy there is.